515 Crew

[Varg]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/1002 ... kdoortaxes

Backdoor taxes to hit middle class

NEW YORK (Reuters.com) --The Obama administration's plan to cut more than $1 trillion from the deficit over the next decade relies heavily on so-called backdoor tax increases that will result in a bigger tax bill for middle-class families.

In the 2010 budget tabled by President Barack Obama on Monday, the White House wants to let billions of dollars in tax breaks expire by the end of the year -- effectively a tax hike by stealth.

While the administration is focusing its proposal on eliminating tax breaks for individuals who earn $250,000 a year or more, middle-class families will face a slew of these backdoor increases.

The targeted tax provisions were enacted under the Bush administration's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001. Among other things, the law lowered individual tax rates, slashed taxes on capital gains and dividends, and steadily scaled back the estate tax to zero in 2010.

If the provisions are allowed to expire on December 31, the top-tier personal income tax rate will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent. But lower-income families will pay more as well: the 25 percent tax bracket will revert back to 28 percent; the 28 percent bracket will increase to 31 percent; and the 33 percent bracket will increase to 36 percent. The special 10 percent bracket is eliminated.

Investors will pay more on their earnings next year as well, with the tax on dividends jumping to 39.6 percent from 15 percent and the capital-gains tax increasing to 20 percent from 15 percent. The estate tax is eliminated this year, but it will return in 2011 -- though there has been talk about reinstating the death tax sooner.

Millions of middle-class households already may be facing higher taxes in 2010 because Congress has failed to extend tax breaks that expired on January 1, most notably a "patch" that limited the impact of the alternative minimum tax. The AMT, initially designed to prevent the very rich from avoiding income taxes, was never indexed for inflation. Now the tax is affecting millions of middle-income households, but lawmakers have been reluctant to repeal it because it has become a key source of revenue.

Without annual legislation to renew the patch this year, the AMT could affect an estimated 25 million taxpayers with incomes as low as $33,750 (or $45,000 for joint filers). Even if the patch is extended to last year's levels, the tax will hit American families that can hardly be considered wealthy -- the AMT exemption for 2009 was $46,700 for singles and $70,950 for married couples filing jointly.

Middle-class families also will find fewer tax breaks available to them in 2010 if other popular tax provisions are allowed to expire. Among them:

* Taxpayers who itemize will lose the option to deduct state sales-tax payments instead of state and local income taxes;

* The $250 teacher tax credit for classroom supplies;

* The tax deduction for up to $4,000 of college tuition and expenses;

* Individuals who don't itemize will no longer be able to increase their standard deduction by up to $1,000 for property taxes paid;

* The first $2,400 of unemployment benefits are taxable, in 2009 that amount was tax-free.

[Varg]

Commentary:

This is fucking insane. You don't rescue an economy by increasing taxes- that's how you DESTROY it. You can't expect people to spend more money, thus stimulating the economy when you take more of their money away.
Bush put those tax cuts in place and we had one of the strongest economies ever. Who remembers the DOW being over 13,000? That was insane.

So now let's hear all your bullshit about what a great idea this is.

[servo]

reuters pulls backdoor tax story

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.co ... -story.php

The Feb 1 story headlined "Backdoor taxes to hit middle class" is wrong and has been withdrawn. The story said lower-income families will pay more under tax provisions scheduled to expire Dec 31. The Obama administration's budget calls for the extension of those tax provisions for households earning less than $250,000. There will be no substitute story.

[Beaver]

I agree. Tax breaks and credits do not help. Bush's were just as retarded if not more so. What is needed is the raising of taxes, but nobody likes to hear it. I.E. Jimmy Carter.

[Nick]

reuters pulls backdoor tax story

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.co ... -story.php

The Feb 1 story headlined "Backdoor taxes to hit middle class" is wrong and has been withdrawn. The story said lower-income families will pay more under tax provisions scheduled to expire Dec 31. The Obama administration's budget calls for the extension of those tax provisions for households earning less than $250,000. There will be no substitute story.

lol

[JoePreppy]

Remember when Clinton was Prez and left we had a surplus and one of the strongest economies ever? Then when Bush was Prez and left and ooooh shit

boooooring

[Joey Chaos]

Actually, I already knew the president was a dumb nigger.

[joseph]

I agree. Tax breaks and credits do not help. Bush's were just as retarded if not more so. What is needed is the raising of taxes, but nobody likes to hear it. I.E. Jimmy Carter.

so paying more of your income in the form of taxes helps you? like if you make 15000 a year and pay 5000 in taxes youd be ok with that?

[Beaver]

That's a pretty drastic senerio. All I'm saying is in order to get out of debt, you have to pay.

[joseph]

That's a pretty drastic senerio. All I'm saying is in order to get out of debt, you have to pay.

i was just making an easy scenario.

so when youre in debt you spend more? when im in debt i spend less...

[Big Fat Retard]

Actually, I already knew the president was a dumb nigger.

Obama isn't black.

[Big Fat Retard]

That's a pretty drastic senerio. All I'm saying is in order to get out of debt, you have to pay.

In order to get out of debt you have to quit spending billions a day on being the World Police.

[TooManyHumyns]

i didnt realize that $250,000 is middle class...hmmm...

[Varg]

I agree. Tax breaks and credits do not help. Bush's were just as retarded if not more so. What is needed is the raising of taxes, but nobody likes to hear it. I.E. Jimmy Carter.

lol, dumbest shit I've ever heard. There is absolutely no logic to that whatsoever- and joseph made it pretty clear and concise. Carter was one of the WORST presidents we've ever had. And do you not remember the recession caused by him?

In order to get out of debt you have to quit spending billions a day on being the World Police.

Wrong.
How about: not taxing businesses into oblivion so they're forced to move overseas.
Not bailing out FAILED/FAILING businesses, entire industries, and banks.
Not borrowing nearly a trillion dollars for a "stimulus" that's destined to only further delay the inevitable &/or do nothing (see above)
Don't pass a bill that will make me participate in paying for everyone elses healthcare so I have even less money.
How about having a long-term plan, instead of a quick-fix idea?
How about having some accountability?

[Varg]

i didnt realize that $250,000 is middle class...hmmm...

What the fuck are you reading?

"Without annual legislation to renew the patch this year, the AMT could affect an estimated 25 million taxpayers with incomes as low as $33,750 (or $45,000 for joint filers). Even if the patch is extended to last year's levels, the tax will hit American families that can hardly be considered wealthy -- the AMT exemption for 2009 was $46,700 for singles and $70,950 for married couples filing jointly."

[TooManyHumyns]

your post is irrelevant, the way i heard it today it was for folks making 250,000 or more...

[TooManyHumyns]

alls i can find anywhere is cuts for individuals making less than 200, and families less that 250...and possible tax increases for the 250+ crowd...which supposedly would effect small buisnesses, which is whack...but there is supposedly incentives for buisness that hire more workers...some of the shit is really wonky...i am confused by what the real intent is...im not backing the guy...but i am blown away that i keep hearing on the conservative stations that 250,000 is the middle class...

[ilikehorses]

i didnt realize that $250,000 is middle class...hmmm...

What the fuck are you reading?

"Without annual legislation to renew the patch this year, the AMT could affect an estimated 25 million taxpayers with incomes as low as $33,750 (or $45,000 for joint filers). Even if the patch is extended to last year's levels, the tax will hit American families that can hardly be considered wealthy -- the AMT exemption for 2009 was $46,700 for singles and $70,950 for married couples filing jointly."

hey, varg,

reuters pulls backdoor tax story

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.co ... -story.php

The Feb 1 story headlined "Backdoor taxes to hit middle class" is wrong and has been withdrawn. The story said lower-income families will pay more under tax provisions scheduled to expire Dec 31. The Obama administration's budget calls for the extension of those tax provisions for households earning less than $250,000. There will be no substitute story.

[ilikehorses]

Wrong.
How about: not taxing businesses into oblivion so they're forced to move overseas.
Not bailing out FAILED/FAILING businesses, entire industries, and banks.
Not borrowing nearly a trillion dollars for a "stimulus" that's destined to only further delay the inevitable &/or do nothing (see above)
Don't pass a bill that will make me participate in paying for everyone elses healthcare so I have even less money.
How about having a long-term plan, instead of a quick-fix idea?
How about having some accountability?

businesses will continue to move to other countries so long as we allow them to move, exploit cheap / slave labor, and not get taxed to hell for it. if corporations that moved out of country got increased taxes for doing so, they'd maybe be less inclined to do so.
and i think increased taxes on large companies / corporations, fewer taxes on the working poor, lower middle class, and small mom-and-pop companies.
i think the latte they take out of your paycheck each week for the healthcare of the uninsured is well worth it.
bailing out corporations and banks is a huge mistake. of course, don't put the blame for that solely on obama. i mean, he didn't' start it. but of course, he could end it.

varg, in seriousness, do you have a job? like, a real, paying job, not an internship? this is a serious question.

[Beaver]

I agree. Tax breaks and credits do not help. Bush's were just as retarded if not more so. What is needed is the raising of taxes, but nobody likes to hear it. I.E. Jimmy Carter.

lol, dumbest shit I've ever heard. There is absolutely no logic to that whatsoever- and joseph made it pretty clear and concise. Carter was one of the WORST presidents we've ever had. And do you not remember the recession caused by him?

Ragan was a faggot.

[vegan ss]

Who gives a shit? The same policies have been in place for decades regardless of who was president. You are a dolt if you think that any president is going to do anything to beniefit mr middleclass. To keep this short, fuck all presidents,cops,racism,sellouts and shitty apolitical hardcore. Die in a hunting accident, or some shit, you worthless fucking twat.

[Joey Chaos]

Who gives a shit? The same policies have been in place for decades regardless of who was president. You are a dolt if you think that any president is going to do anything to beniefit mr middleclass. To keep this short, fuck all presidents,cops,racism,sellouts and shitty apolitical hardcore. Die in a hunting accident, or some shit, you worthless fucking twat.

The more you talk, the more I think about coming to DSM and kicking your ass.


Just sayin.............

[vegan ss]

Who gives a shit? The same policies have been in place for decades regardless of who was president. You are a dolt if you think that any president is going to do anything to beniefit mr middleclass. To keep this short, fuck all presidents,cops,racism,sellouts and shitty apolitical hardcore. Die in a hunting accident, or some shit, you worthless fucking twat.

The more you talk, the more I think about coming to DSM and kicking your ass.


Just sayin.............

Won't happen. Even if it did, it wouldn't change the fact that you're a blithering idiot.

[Varg]

businesses will continue to move to other countries so long as we allow them to move, exploit cheap / slave labor, and not get taxed to hell for it. if corporations that moved out of country got increased taxes for doing so, they'd maybe be less inclined to do so.
and i think increased taxes on large companies / corporations, fewer taxes on the working poor, lower middle class, and small mom-and-pop companies.
i think the latte they take out of your paycheck each week for the healthcare of the uninsured is well worth it.
bailing out corporations and banks is a huge mistake. of course, don't put the blame for that solely on obama. i mean, he didn't' start it. but of course, he could end it.

varg, in seriousness, do you have a job? like, a real, paying job, not an internship? this is a serious question.

So the reason businesses are going overseas is to avoid being over-taxed and for cheaper labor (thanks to unions)--- and your solution is to threaten them with MORE taxes if they leave? That's not a solution, that's a threat (I even wrote it twice for those who are slower.) and it's insane.
The "latte" they would take out of my check is not worth it. Why don't they use their OWN latte money? Why don't you ever look at it from that perspective?
Half of the assholes that don't have health insurance could easily get it by sacrificing cable t.v. or cigarettes or lattes or whatever the fuck else they waste their money on. So no, it's not worth it or FAIR for me to have to pay for their shit 'just 'cause they don't wanna'.
You're totally alleviating the responsibility these people are suppose to have for themselves. They're becoming more and more dependent on government to the point where they don't have to do anything all day but watch jerry springer and soaps while they live off other people. I believe that is pretty close to the definition of a parasite. Is that your idea of "work smart, not hard"?

The 'back door taxes' are exactly that, and the story was pulled due to white house pressure.
Yes I have a job. I'm an independent contractor.

[El Rhino]

So the reason businesses are going overseas is to avoid being over-taxed and for cheaper labor (thanks to unions)

For wanting to work for wages and benefits that provide a decent middle class standard of living as opposed to making maybe $10-$12 an hour with little protections? You're welcome.

[ilikehorses]

businesses will continue to move to other countries so long as we allow them to move, exploit cheap / slave labor, and not get taxed to hell for it. if corporations that moved out of country got increased taxes for doing so, they'd maybe be less inclined to do so.
and i think increased taxes on large companies / corporations, fewer taxes on the working poor, lower middle class, and small mom-and-pop companies.
i think the latte they take out of your paycheck each week for the healthcare of the uninsured is well worth it.
bailing out corporations and banks is a huge mistake. of course, don't put the blame for that solely on obama. i mean, he didn't' start it. but of course, he could end it.

varg, in seriousness, do you have a job? like, a real, paying job, not an internship? this is a serious question.

So the reason businesses are going overseas is to avoid being over-taxed and for cheaper labor (thanks to unions)--- and your solution is to threaten them with MORE taxes if they leave? That's not a solution, that's a threat (I even wrote it twice for those who are slower.) and it's insane.
The "latte" they would take out of my check is not worth it. Why don't they use their OWN latte money? Why don't you ever look at it from that perspective?
Half of the assholes that don't have health insurance could easily get it by sacrificing cable t.v. or cigarettes or lattes or whatever the fuck else they waste their money on. So no, it's not worth it or FAIR for me to have to pay for their shit 'just 'cause they don't wanna'.
You're totally alleviating the responsibility these people are suppose to have for themselves. They're becoming more and more dependent on government to the point where they don't have to do anything all day but watch jerry springer and soaps while they live off other people. I believe that is pretty close to the definition of a parasite. Is that your idea of "work smart, not hard"?

The 'back door taxes' are exactly that, and the story was pulled due to white house pressure.
Yes I have a job. I'm an independent contractor.

"dont wanna?" it has nothing to do (or most often is not the case) with "dont wanna." when youre impoverished, something you obviously know nothing of, it often comes down to insurance vs rent or insurance vs food. often part-time jobs' insurance costs literally hundreds of dollars per month. full time jobs' often are not any better.

when i was in medical records, to get insurance, it would have cost me literally as much as i paid for rent every month. when i worked in retail, they didn't offer insurance for six months, not that i could have afforded it. (and i was just paying for myself, not a family!) many people never get out of situations like this. i deal with these people hundreds of times every single day. it's not their CHOICE to not have insurance, it comes to basic survival, the here and now. again, not that you've ever had to deal with that in your life.

and that's a problem: the people so scared and opposed to healthcare for all citizens have never dealt with not having health insurance, or more specifically, getting ill without health insurance. everyone can laugh and say "just go to broadlawns," but in reality, without insurance, most primary care physicians will not see you. so your baby will not get well-baby checks, you can't get annual check ups, you can be seen for your cough. so what's the solution? go to the ER, where they have to see you. so our ERs (which the visit costs 5 times as much), are clogged full of people who should be seeing their PCP. if they had insurance, government insurance that PCPs could easily and would take, the cost of their health care would drop significantly due to fewer ER visits.

most of the people on government assistance do in fact have jobs, i know you hate to think that may be the case. but not all jobs afford you insurance or offer it.

and the story was pulled due to lack of fact and being filled with complete lies. that's not white house pressure, that's bad journalism. no surprise, though.

and so, no, you don't have a real job? ok.

and yes, increasing taxes to businesses that move overseas (not threatening, doing) would prevent them moving, or if not, it would increase money gained from these assholes who are fucking over US citizens. i mean, it's their choice if they move their factory to indonesia, but they shouldn't get any break ever for doing so. they are fucking over not only US citizens, but indonesians by side stepping safe work conditions and cost of living and labor regulations. fuck those companies, tax the fuck out of them.

(edit: on cost of ER visits, i looked it up a little. the average cost is about $1500, depending on what tests are done, ie. blood tests, xrays, ct, etc. i know that an urgent care clinic's minimum is $80, if no tests are performed. each test averages about $50. many urgent care clinics will not take the current government medicaid / title IX. when a person on meidcaid / title IX has to go to the ER to get a basic check up, this is how much money is wasted.)

[joseph]

you people need to make out and get it over with already

[Bullet Tooth]

The 'back door taxes' are exactly that, and the story was pulled due to white house pressure.
Yes I have a job. I'm an independent contractor.

source?

im assuming this is doing studio work with guitar. not trying to be a dick but that kind of sounds tedious. do you do this in california/where ever you are or is it like a fly you all over type of thing?

[ilikehorses]

So the reason businesses are going overseas is to avoid being over-taxed and for cheaper labor (thanks to unions)

For wanting to work for wages and benefits that provide a decent middle class standard of living as opposed to making maybe $10-$12 an hour with little protections? You're welcome.

personally, i can't see how anyone (who isn't the boss, i guess) can disagree with unions. unions have done so much to provide workers with safe working conditions and decent wages. though, i think unions stopped short in their heyday of really sticking it to the bosses and showing the workers are in control, i think they have done and continue to do a lot for the average worker.
but of course, varg will never be in a union.

[Bullet Tooth]

So the reason businesses are going overseas is to avoid being over-taxed and for cheaper labor (thanks to unions)

For wanting to work for wages and benefits that provide a decent middle class standard of living as opposed to making maybe $10-$12 an hour with little protections? You're welcome.

personally, i can't see how anyone (who isn't the boss, i guess) can disagree with unions. unions have done so much to provide workers with safe working conditions and decent wages. though, i think unions stopped short in their heyday of really sticking it to the bosses and showing the workers are in control, i think they have done and continue to do a lot for the average worker.
but of course, varg will never be in a union.

unfortunately unions are losing their power fast. the job i have is union and each contract negotiation we have (every 3 years) we lose more and more.