515 Crew

officially acknowledging all that poppycock about aliens and whatnot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

This story really interests me... it has been floating around for a while now.

This guy is pretty credible, doesn't seem to have many screws loose, and his story is somewhat believable. -IF- there really has been contact with or evidence of extraterrestrial life on Earth, this is probably how it would play out- shrouded in secrecy and protected from even the most powerful people in the world.

I don't know, I believe that there has to be life on other planets and shit but I don't believe we've been visited by manned craft or will most likely ever be visited.


If there are civilizations out there who are more advanced than us, there's still the distance issue and as far as I know you can't travel faster than the speed of light. Even if you could travel the speed of light, it's a long fucking way from the closest place that could possibly hold life, let alone life that's advanced enough for space travel...let alone space travel across such vast distances. We haven't even put a man on Mars yet.

Imagine how precise their navigation systems would have to be. Even a fraction of a mil off could make them drastically overshoot the Earth.

El Rhino wrote:I don't know, I believe that there has to be life on other planets and shit but I don't believe we've been visited by manned craft or will most likely ever be visited.


If there are civilizations out there who are more advanced than us, there's still the distance issue and as far as I know you can't travel faster than the speed of light. Even if you could travel the speed of light, it's a long fucking way from the closest place that could possibly hold life, let alone life that's advanced enough for space travel...let alone space travel across such vast distances. We haven't even put a man on Mars yet.

Imagine how precise their navigation systems would have to be. Even a fraction of a mil off could make them drastically overshoot the Earth.

well, without going too far into this discussion--

Once you come around to the idea that there is other intelligent life in the universe, it's not that hard to conceive that there could be other intelligent life more advanced than we are--by hundreds, thousands, who knows, maybe millions (?) of years. that we haven't been able to find some way of crossing the light barrier (or getting around it somehow) within the mere few thousand years we've been around (or, as a better point of reference: within hardly a century or two since just the industrial revolution) isn't really saying that much....

As a species, I'd say we're still in our infancy in terms of intellectual evolution. It's silly to assume that something isn't possible just because *we* haven't achieved it yet.

Crumpty Williams wrote:

El Rhino wrote: As a species, I'd say we're still in our infancy in terms of intellectual evolution. It's silly to assume that something isn't possible just because *we* haven't achieved it yet.

No, it's silly to assume that you have any grasp of how we rate intellectually compared to the rest of the universe. How do you know? We don't know. We could be the top dog in the universe, we could be somewhere in the middle or we could be way behind the curve.

There are still laws of physics out there and I don't believe that anyone can travel faster than the speed of light.... Hell, even if you can go ten times the speed of light, the Earth is still a long fucking ways away from anywhere that could possibly hold intelligent life. Assuming they're carbon based critters that need food, water and air getting to Earth without sufficient logistical bases would be pretty hard to do... Plus there's the possibility of them having lifespans similar to ours and it would take generations and generations to man a flight to Earth. Just to fly around and stick a probe up some redneck's ass, mutilate his cattle and make some cool designs in his corn doesn't seem worth it.

El Rhino wrote:

Crumpty Williams wrote:

El Rhino wrote: As a species, I'd say we're still in our infancy in terms of intellectual evolution. It's silly to assume that something isn't possible just because *we* haven't achieved it yet.

No, it's silly to assume that you have any grasp of how we rate intellectually compared to the rest of the universe. How do you know? We don't know. We could be the top dog in the universe, we could be somewhere in the middle or we could be way behind the curve.

What i meant by in our "intellectual infancy" was not necessarily a comparison to other lifeforms in the universe... I'm just talking about looking at time as a whole and our own progress and history. Just judging from the leaps and bounds that we've made in technological progress in the last 100 years or so (things that would never have been dreamed possible by humanity during our previous 199,900 years or so of existence), i think we're just hitting the beginning of the upshot of an exponential intellectual growth curve. And in any case, what's 200,000 years? not even a blink of an eye in terms of universal time.

Like you said, we DON'T know where we are in relation to other life in the universe. That was exactly my point. If you don't know, you CAN'T assume we're at the top (or the bottom, for that matter), and it is completely *conceivable* that there exists life far more advanced than we are.

As for the "well shit mang how would they get here?" issue, my point was that simply because WE haven't achieved something, does not merit an assumption that it's impossible....

And even on this point i think you're the one making the erroneous assumptions again--i.e. that extra-terrestrial life would surely have lifespans similar to our own (i mean again--look at how much we've increased our own lifespans in a realtively tiny time period... its pretty easy to imagine that even in the next hundred years we'll have tacked significantly to our own rapidly increasing life-spans; what about in another 2000 years??) or that the only possibly method of interstellar travel would be to physically surpass the speed of light....

El Rhino wrote:
There are still laws of physics out there and I don't believe that anyone can travel faster than the speed of light.... Hell, even if you can go ten times the speed of light, the Earth is still a long fucking ways away from anywhere that could possibly hold intelligent life. Assuming they're carbon based critters that need food, water and air getting to Earth without sufficient logistical bases would be pretty hard to do...

You don't necessarily have to travel FASTER than the speed of light. (Sidenote: They do have particle accelerators that can speed up particles to 99.99% of the speed of light) and keep in mind "earth time" and time in space are different (theory of relativity).

No surprise here- the answer is wormholes. Obviously there's no way of creating them that we know of now, but they are naturally occurring- and the problem is in keeping them open long enough. This illustrates the basic idea of shortening the distance- rather than traveling faster:



The concept of wormholes has been made fairly easy for everyone to understand- the actual math behind it would make anyone want to kill themselves. I'm sure this will open the discussion of time travel now- so absolutes are: Yes- you can travel to the future (theory of relativity) but whether or not you can go back is debatable and would require both wormholes and/or traveling faster than the speed of light.

You can go much more in-depth with these theories and still understand them- but that is seriously a huge waste of time on this board. I would suggest you A) Turn on the fucking discovery channel and/or B) Pick up Hawking's "A BRIEFER History of Time" It's a condensed version of the book that makes everything perfectly understandable and not a hard read at all.
If after that you have intelligent questions- go ahead and ask....but just cluttering the board with the same back and forth shit about time travel and light-speed we've all heard too many times to count- is ridiculous.

Whatever you do, I wouldn't suggest buying that book by Michio Kaku "physics of the impossible"- His recent appearances on the Discovery channel I suspect are the only reason this book was released. I thumbed through it and he says some stupid shit and outright denies the possibility of other life-forms. However, I should inform you, I'm not a physicist- SO TAKE THAT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH.


On the topic of lifespans- I remember my Biology teacher talking about the very real possibility of extending peoples lifetimes to double what they are today (during a tirade about over-population). She said it would be frightening because you would have people who maybe look 60 yrs old but are really 120 yrs old behind the wheel (mentally and LITERALLY)- they'd probably be riddled with Alzheimer’s and out of their god damn minds. All she said was things were "in development" and that she was glad she'd be gone by then. Then again, what the fuck does she know- she was a marine biologist.

I award Varg this sunglass smiley for his first even-close-to-intelligent post since.... ever?

Varg wrote:but just cluttering the board with the same back and forth shit about time travel and light-speed we've all heard too many times to count- is ridiculous.

Also, i totally agree with this, which is why i left it at:

Crumpty Williams wrote:
And even on this point i think you're the one making the erroneous assumptions again--i.e.... that the only possibly method of interstellar travel would be to physically surpass the speed of light....

instead of going into a lengthy layman's explanation of a wormhole.

Read "Hyperspace-the 10 dimensions". It's pretty amazing. It's by that Icho Makhio dude, my friend has the book so i forgot the correct spelling of his name. There's a lot of formula's and stuff, but he makes it so you don't exactly ever have to remember them all while reading it. There's also a section on traveling through a blackhole. It's a great read and you should read it if you're truly interested in wormholes etc.

There's a link to Larry King interviewing Edgar Mitchell, and ol' Ed tells Bill Nye to shut up. It's awesome.

retarded.
to think that intelligent life in this galaxy, which is enormous, wants anything to do with us is selfish.

crumpty! i've really been enjoying your posts lately!

also... it's true that we are a selfish, narcissistic people, but if you think about it, WE are searching for life on other planets, so why wouldn't SPACE PEOPLE do the same thing?! i'd bet that aliens are curious beings.

I doubt they want to have much to do with us, but I'm sure we are seen as a curiosity.

personally, i think that (assuming ETs exist and are/were visiting earth) whatever their involvement here may be it likely is a LOT more complex than just simple curiosity...

and scott... hey man thanks im glad somebody's enjoying my posts!

I forgot about this thread for a little bit.



Anyways, I read "A Briefer History of Time" last year and am familiar with the concept of wormholes. My school related reading load is pretty heavy right now but I've been meaning to start on "A Brief History of Time" when I can.

Also, even if lifespans were increased (and yes, I know time is different in space), the only other places that could have anything resembling intelligent lifeforms with the ability to travel in space are really fucking far away.

If there is intelligent life in the Milky Way, I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there correctly suspects theres intelligent life on this planet and vaguely knows of our existence.

Speaking of which, there's the "Drake Equation" which estimates the number of communicative (read: pretty much where we're at and beyond technology wise) civilizations in the Milky Way. It takes the number of stars divided by the number of stars with planets, figures each of these has one or two capable of supporting life, multiplies this number by a really small number for the percentage that will support life, multiplies this by another really small number which will turn into intelligent life and then multiplies this by another really small number to get an estimated number of civilizations that are capable of sending messages into space. I may be forgetting a step or two in there, but it's kind of interesting.

So that's my argument. Aliens are really far away, the universe is a big place and aliens are probably unlikely to ever get anywhere near us.

ok now that we've passed the warm-up round, anyone want to talk some ancient astronaut theory?

I watched Apollo 13 last night. Sweet movie, but it really made me want to have a cigarette.

Crumpty Williams wrote:ok now that we've passed the warm-up round, anyone want to talk some ancient astronaut theory?

hypothesis.





and yes.

If you're in to conspiracy theories (and I think there are quite a few 9/11 whackjobs on this board):
It might have been this astronaut, I can't remember which one, but there is someone on record saying they found a base on the moon (in a crater I believe) which supports some peoples "why havn't we gone back" theory......of course there's no evidence of this and then you'd somehow have to control amateur astronomers I would assume? But then they wouldn't have to travel such long distances- so that could potentially be an answer to your question. There are *real* NASA videos all over youtube showing what definitely look like UFOs in space- that are impossible to discredit. NASA has tried to say it was tiny debris off the ship but the directions and distance the debris went is contradictory so they've altogether backed off that I believe.

There is some jerk-off who made this WEIRD, and I mean STYX CONCEPT-THEME ALBUM WEIRD, documentary- but he interviews some very credible people- in fact one person who most believe to be the most credible person "ever" in this area. I stumbled across him purely by accident when researching coral castle and "anti-gravity". But this guy worked for EVERYONE- and not as a janitor- but in top level development depts. for companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin (sp?) and some stuff for govt. I believe (havn't seen it in awhile) He is a very intelligent man and has *pictures* of some things you'll definitely find interesting ( I won't spoil it ). His name is Boyd Bushman.

You're gonna have to find the vids yourself, but easily enough done through youtube.

alien moon base:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTw2ZE4c ... re=related

Varg wrote:If you're in to conspiracy theories (and I think there are quite a few 9/11 whackjobs on this board):
It might have been this astronaut, I can't remember which one, but there is someone on record saying they found a base on the moon (in a crater I believe) which supports some peoples "why havn't we gone back" theory......of course there's no evidence of this and then you'd somehow have to control amateur astronomers I would assume? But then they wouldn't have to travel such long distances- so that could potentially be an answer to your question. There are *real* NASA videos all over youtube showing what definitely look like UFOs in space- that are impossible to discredit. NASA has tried to say it was tiny debris off the ship but the directions and distance the debris went is contradictory so they've altogether backed off that I believe.

There is some jerk-off who made this WEIRD, and I mean STYX CONCEPT-THEME ALBUM WEIRD, documentary- but he interviews some very credible people- in fact one person who most believe to be the most credible person "ever" in this area. I stumbled across him purely by accident when researching coral castle and "anti-gravity". But this guy worked for EVERYONE- and not as a janitor- but in top level development depts. for companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin (sp?) and some stuff for govt. I believe (havn't seen it in awhile) He is a very intelligent man and has *pictures* of some things you'll definitely find interesting ( I won't spoil it ). His name is Boyd Bushman.

You're gonna have to find the vids yourself, but easily enough done through youtube.

Yeah i've looked into pretty much all the stuff you mention here myself (coral castle, "anti-gravity" [have you checked out the Stan Deyo stuff?], NASA videos...), but the name Boyd Bushman doesn't ring a bell. I'll look into it.

Varg wrote: WEIRD, and I mean STYX CONCEPT-THEME ALBUM WEIRD,

Another pretty damn interesting vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azjP1Aw6 ... re=related