515 Crew

Posted: **Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:15 pm**

in light of the many threads about veganism(and the threads that have been hijacked by the topic), i thought i'd post this piece that my friend Brian wrote in a hardcore zine called Inside Front some years back. this was published in the early-mid 90's before the author went vegan and before the term "freegan" was used widely. it has some interesting views for and against veganism and also raises some great points regarding why people are vegan. enjoy and discuss.

http://crimethinc.com/texts/insidefront/veganism.php

in addition, a related article on buying/selling/advertising within the hardcore punk community(same author, same zine) can be found here for those interested in, what i feel, is still something we should be thinking about:

http://crimethinc.com/texts/insidefront/selling.php

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:32 pm**

Is it even possible to eat a vegan meal at Taco Bell?

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:45 pm**

Hardcore isn't shit anymore. No one cares about anything, only about how many Xs they can put around their name... for a week, then, fuck it, get fuckin' ripped braaaah.

-Joe.

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:36 am**

Joe wrote:Hardcore isn't shit anymore, because no one covers burning fight

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:46 am**

Nah, there's a few out there that cover Burning Fight.

-Joe.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:34 am**

i used to eat vegan taco johns all the time. taco bell kills farmers... when i was living in mexico, h/c was still important, the few scenes i saw were amazing. my partner has said the same from experiences in brazil, and i have heard stories from all over. i guess white kids just don't know how to do it anymore.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:05 am**

little foot wrote:i guess white kids just don't know how to do it anymore.

Always with the stupid, stupid shit.
Always.

-Joe.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:02 am**

little foot wrote: in brazil, and i have heard stories from all over. i guess white kids just don't know how to do it anymore.

You realize Brazil has one of the largest white populations on the planet and that it's extremely likely that these hardcore kids from Brazil that "know how to do it" are going to be of overwhelmingly white descent, right?

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:14 am**

El Rhino wrote:
little foot wrote: in brazil, and i have heard stories from all over. i guess white kids just don't know how to do it anymore.

You realize Brazil has one of the largest white populations on the planet and that it's extremely likely that these hardcore kids from Brazil that "know how to do it" are going to be of overwhelmingly white descent, right?

alright, let me revise, not a retraction, but a revision. all in good humor, as always. i guess the US kings of culture just don't know how to do it anymore. what i really mean is that, it seems in the US that once things start involving more than a few hundred or thousand folks, it becomes nothing more than a bloated commercial monster. there are always the purists and honest kids around, but are islands surrounded by, as joe insinuated, 'fashion-edge, taco bell vegans, christcore, etc'. The h/c communities that i have seen and heard of in the south are much more community oriented, or as rhino saw, not just punks. it seems the DIY idea gets actually used in a way that in the US you barely see at all. there, some kids put together a show, and the whole town not only shows up, but are welcome and not alienated. I saw this DIY mall in monterrey(i think), MX that was ran by kids. It was a huge underground (as in under-the-ground) building filled to the gills with kids skating, tattooing, selling bootleg american cds, and hanging out. of course there were piles of squatter punk kids there, but also their grandmas selling veggies. i only spent a few hours theres, but it was sweet. also, in morelia, MX, there was a punk street show/party i went to, and there were thousands in the street dancing. three generations rockin out to black flag covers. my partner traveled in brazil for a number of months studying capoeria. she told me about whole capoeria/h/c ghettos, three generations, and the capoeria scene is overwhelminly, are you ready? black. it the international caporistas as rock stars scene where you start finding the white kids. she also told me that in albuquerque, NM that there was a huge american indian metal scene. not that race honestly has anything to do with it. funny that the vegan post got hijacked by race, though.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:20 am**

Joe wrote:
little foot wrote:i guess white kids just don't know how to do it anymore.
Always with the stupid, stupid shit.
Always.

-Joe.

Always.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:35 am**

little foot wrote: not that race honestly has anything to do with it. funny that the vegan post got hijacked by race, though.

...and you did scroll back up to see who made the first mention of it, right?

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:59 am**

little foot wrote: alright, let me revise, not a retraction, but a revision. all in good humor, as always.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:01 am**

So you did scroll back up. Great. Now we can continue to discuss the worn-out subject of what the scene lacks "these days".

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:01 am**

El Rhino wrote:
little foot wrote: not that race honestly has anything to do with it. funny that the vegan post got hijacked by race, though.
...and you did scroll back up to see who made the first mention of it, right?

but he was being funny, you fun hater.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:02 am**

Oh. Ha ha?

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:03 am**

also, on the subject of white people in brazil, from what Xara tells me, white people there aren't white people here. Xara is considered white in brazil, but here everyone is well aware that he is latino. due to brazil's history, most people are a colorful combination of indigenous, african, and european. and there, it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does here.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:05 am**

El Rhino wrote:Oh. Ha ha?

that's right. jokes about white people are always funny. always.

i flipped through the Stuff White People Like book at the bookstore a couple days ago.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:33 am**

ilikehorses wrote:also, on the subject of white people in brazil, from what Xara tells me, white people there aren't white people here. Xara is considered white in brazil, but here everyone is well aware that he is latino. due to brazil's history, most people are a colorful combination of indigenous, african, and european. and there, it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does here.

I've heard otherwise. I've heard that Brazil has about 20 different terms in regular usage that describe skin color and perceived racial admixture, like how we have "mulatto", "quadroon", "meztiso" and so on. I know there is a lot of mixing in Brazil and some of the main groups of Europeans who settled in Brazil are naturally dark-skinneded (Portuguese, Spanish, Italian) and may not look like they should be on a Viking ship or yodelling in the Alps, but are still considered white.

Racial mixing was fairly common in the early days of Brazil's history, but like the United States, Brazil has also received a lot of relatively recent (say, past 100 years) immigration from Europe. Brazil has the largest population of Italians outside of Italy (even more than us) and I guess there are states in Southern Brazil that are virtually all white. "Latino" doesn't always mean not white. There are some Latino countries with an overwhelming white majority and pretty much every Latino country has some sort of European population to speak of (Uruguay being the highest, maybe Peru or Ecuador having the lowest).

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:58 pm**

El Rhino wrote:
ilikehorses wrote:also, on the subject of white people in brazil, from what Xara tells me, white people there aren't white people here. Xara is considered white in brazil, but here everyone is well aware that he is latino. due to brazil's history, most people are a colorful combination of indigenous, african, and european. and there, it doesn't matter nearly as much as it does here.
I've heard otherwise. I've heard that Brazil has about 20 different terms in regular usage that describe skin color and perceived racial admixture, like how we have "mulatto", "quadroon", "meztiso" and so on. I know there is a lot of mixing in Brazil and some of the main groups of Europeans who settled in Brazil are naturally dark-skinneded (Portuguese, Spanish, Italian) and may not look like they should be on a Viking ship or yodelling in the Alps, but are still considered white.

Racial mixing was fairly common in the early days of Brazil's history, but like the United States, Brazil has also received a lot of relatively recent (say, past 100 years) immigration from Europe. Brazil has the largest population of Italians outside of Italy (even more than us) and I guess there are states in Southern Brazil that are virtually all white. "Latino" doesn't always mean not white. There are some Latino countries with an overwhelming white majority and pretty much every Latino country has some sort of European population to speak of (Uruguay being the highest, maybe Peru or Ecuador having the lowest).

sure, brazil has a lot of immigration. they have a substantial amount of japanese people living there as well. i'm just saying what Xara, who is from Brazil, told us. he tells us over an over that "white" in brazil is much, much different than "white" here. apparently, you don't see crackers like me much in brazil. my friend went to brazil and she was a spectacle to most of the brazilians because of her fair skin.
but i think, as i stated before, that race plays a very little role in brazil to most average on-the-street people, so a darker skinned caucasian might be just assumed to be a person of indigenous decent. who knows. race isn't important anyway.
capoeira, though, is awesome. if we're talking about brazil, let's talk about capoeira.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:09 pm**

with a little research, i found that the ethnic makeup of brazil to be pretty much half and half, caucasian and black, though most reports break up the black population into dark black and lighter black, making whites the dominant ethnic makeup. but otherwise, it's about 50/50, with a little room for indigenous (which brings up unaccounted indigenous in amazon areas, but whatever...)

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:25 pm**

Brazil actually has a large German population as well and I guess parts of Southern Brazil have a lot of lily-white blondes just as white as you or anybody. I guess Sao Paulo is very white and Southern Brazil has a standard of living pretty much on par with developed nations.

I read an article recently that blacks have just become the largest demographic group in Brazil. The figures I've read for the white population of Brazil put it at about 1/3 of the population being entirely of (or pretty fucking close) European ancestry. I would believe that there's another 1/3 of octo and quadroons and thrown into that figure the indigenious population, which I imagine isn't really that big.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:27 pm**

Anyways, the main point is that Little Foot is wrong in assuming that Brazillians are not white.

and on another note, the guy in my avatar is Latino. The guy in my avatar is also white.

Posted: **Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:31 pm**

humans come in different colors.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:51 am**

El Rhino wrote:Anyways, the main point is that Little Foot is wrong in assuming that Brazillians are not white.

...and if you scroll up...

little foot wrote:...i guess the US kings of culture just don't know how to do it anymore...

and believe me rhino, that very small sentence about whites was nowhere near the main point i was making, hence the above quote. i never said, nor do i believe that all brazillians are not white. i was saying that they were not american. some people do get that confused sometimes. i was talking about h/c scenes. i have a few close friends that are brazillian, and a bit of an understanding of the culture.

so, anyhow, in all of the southern h/c scenes i have seen or heard of, vegan diets were unheard of. when i was living down south, the only vegan or vegetarians i met were either americans or mexican equivilents of rich hippys. the whole vegan thing seems to come only out of priviledged scenes, kind of like pacifism. not that i discount a lot of the reasons for vegan diets, but it is, in my opinion, more of a protest than a means to an end. i still think eating a deer is a hell of a lot more natural than heavily processed soy. and instead of anyone getting all defensive about any of that, please give a constructive argument otherwise.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:53 am**

You said something along the lines that Brazillians were something other than white, I said something about it, you corrected yourself. Glad we at least have that settled.

I hung out with some vegetarians in Argentina. I guess this is rare as those people eat more meat than even we do.

Posted: **Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:36 pm**

so, anyhow, in all of the southern h/c scenes i have seen or heard of, vegan diets were unheard of.

This is wrong. There are tons of vegan h/c bands and vegan only label that are all over south america and mexico. I've recently have been listening to a lot of these bands. I am sick of hearing about the vegan being only for priviledged people debate. What does that even mean?

Posted: **Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:59 am**

ask the priviledge question to those who traditional beliefs outweigh their youth culture. or those who are forced onto dead land where they must hunt or get government commodities for food. or those who don't have access to internet/tv, or don't care too, and eat what is available in their area. rural peoples, forest peoples, jungle peoples, you know, the majority of the world. priviledge is not only having more choices, but the ability to pick and choose from them. relieing on vast networks of trade/exchange, always on the backs of those further down the world economic ladder. you, mister ss, have a huge amount of priviledge that those in even mexico don't enjoy. you live in such a cushy and wasteful world, that if you don't have food, it is purely out of your own laziness. you have enough priviledge to evoke the name of mass murderers as a joke. there probably are vegan s.american commodities for sale, but in my experience, from being there, it is rare, and from the upper class.

p.s. i will be away from this virtual world for the next 10 or so days, but i respond to post when i get back.

Posted: **Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:24 pm**

little foot wrote:i still think eating a deer is a hell of a lot more natural than heavily processed soy.

have you ever heard of fresh fruits or vegetables? If you assume that boca burgers comprise a proper vegan diet you are incorrect.

Posted: **Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:22 pm**

lol
primitive anarchy!

Posted: **Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:30 pm**

storkus wrote: Yeah, the South American diet is pretty notoriously carnivorous. I'd be interested in hearing what kind of stuff you ate while there, or at least what you saw people eating.
.

Buenos Aires is probably the most European city in the Americas (or maybe Montreal, I don't know. Hopefully I'll go there soon and find out) so the food kind of reflects that. Most everyone is Italian, so there's a lot of pizza, pasta and Italian influences in the local cooking.

Most restaurants called themselves a "parilla" (pronounced pah-ree-sha in Argentine Spanish, which sounds really fucking cool, btw) which means grill and served grilled cuts of steak, usually served with french fries or "ensalada rusa", which is basically potato salad with a few extra vegetables. The beef is grass fed and pretty much every restaurant has parilla fare, there are even fast food parillas which are actually pretty decent. Served with chimichurri sauce, which is basically vinegar, parsley and a few other things.

Milanesa is another common one. It's basically a breaded cut of tenderized beef. Milanesa Napolitana is my favorite, it's got muzzerella and marianara sauce on it. I think there's a bunch of different ways to prepare this.

Empanadas. Little pies filled with meat, cheese, vegetables or whatever. Baked or fried.

Cafe fare. Lots of cafe con leche, crossiants ("medialunas"), the submarino (steamed milk and a bar of chocolate, then mix), pastries (churros), breads, etc. This comes from the Italian influence and probably also BA's strong desire to rival Paris back in the day. Lots of cafes, most notably the Cafe Tortoni.

Mainly an Uruguayan thing, the Chivito. "the goat". I imagine there's some sort of cult behind this similar to the cheesesteak in the US where people get all worked up about one minor ingredient being added or missing. It's basically a cut of steak (lomo, which I believe is from the rump) served over fries or as a sandwich with a lot of vegetables and sometimes fried eggs. I had one with fries, peas, carrots, lettuce, onions, cheese, a little mayo, boiled potatoes (?), eggs and a few bits of something that was really spicy.

Dulce de Leche. Basically milk caramel. They put this on everything. The best dessert I've ever had was made from a brownie crust, dulce de leche and vanilla ice cream in Uruguay. They also make ice cream similar to Italian ice cream out of it and it's good as fuck. On the plane home I fell asleep and had a dream that a chain down there (Patagonian chocolates) opened up a store here and I was all stoked until I woke up and realized it wasn't happening.

515 Crew

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