515 Crew

[@nonymous]

proof once again that Cityview is a really terrible publication. i encourage everyone to use the new issue as toilet paper or a fire-starter.

the cover story is highlight of the "busted" criminals in des moines over a four day period--more specifically it is a piece cheerleading the des moines police dept. as heroes, showing how effective they are at keeping all of us safe. there is no mention of the truly fucked up crimes the police commit everyday here with impunity. no mention of the possible(potentially devastating) circumstances/environment these alleged criminals were in that lead to their arrest. instead, these folks are put on the front page of a newspaper, edited in photoshop, almost humorously depicting their situation(and indirectly, their economic status).

where was the front page article last year when police killed 15 unarmed victims in the central iowa area(3 were mentally retarded)?

now, aside from this article, Cityview is an especially bad "alt" weekly--though i'm not sure how it's considered alternative: it's owned by the same company that owns the Des Moines Register--but this article accents the type of hack journalism that comes out of this piece of shit publication.

Pointblank wasn't the best, but at least it had some honest writing and interesting stories now and then. this town needs a decent alt weekly. that's all.

[Tom]

yep. cityview is crap.

somebody needs to go guerrilla, run around town, take all the copies of cityview, and throw them away.

[El Rhino]

They should write a big article about how the police are only there to protect rich people's property and to keep the minorities down and have a picture of a cop on the cover with "WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS?" as the title.

[El Rhino]

where was the front page article last year when police killed 15 unarmed victims in the central iowa area(3 were mentally retarded)?
.

Can you provide some sort of link to prove this?

[MicL]

i remember a bunch of incidents in the news last year.

[ilikehorses]

They should write a big article about how the police are only there to protect rich people's property and to keep the minorities down and have a picture of a cop on the cover with "WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS?" as the title.

woahwoahwoah. they also make the city lots of money.

get this article started!

[El Rhino]

i remember a bunch of incidents in the news last year.

I'm pretty sure you didn't hear 15 of them though.

I think every time a police officer kills someone in this city we have a couple page thread about it.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/p ... 0770816075

According to this there was only one shooting in Des Moines in 2007. Eight listed in the metro area since 2004. I don't know how comprehensive this is, as it says "in Iowa" and you would think between Waterloo, Sioux City and Davenport they would've come up with a police shooting or two since 2004. I still call bullshit on @dam's 15 though.

[Crumpty Williams]

1. El Rhino is a pretty smart dude.
2. Regardless of your political opinions, cops in general are at least somehwat teh ghey (though there are exceptions).
3. Regardless of your thoughts on either of the aforementioned, only in a world where cops were exalted as truly enlightened beings on a mission to save humanity would they be worthy of this kind of blowjob from the ONLY supposedly "alt" rag in our beloved excuse for a city...

that's all.

[@nonymous]

I still call bullshit on @dam's 15 though.

somehow i knew you would single this out. that number came off the top of my head and is not fact, however, there was one year(in the last few years) where there was something like 12-15 unarmed folks killed by police in a year's time--i remember because i wrote an article about it.

in any case, this was not my central point(which i'm sure you know). take that out and my point remains: putting these people's faces on the front of a newspaper, writing an article that gives no context or background to their situation, then painting the police as heroes that come in and save the day is not only bullshit journalism, but it's really disrespectful and cruel to the folks in the mugshots. it's also misrepresentative of police.

Cityview is one of the worst publications i've ever read, and i've read Juice.

[Tom]

1. El Rhino is a pretty smart dude.
2. Regardless of your political opinions, cops in general are at least somehwat teh ghey (though there are exceptions).
3. Regardless of your thoughts on either of the aforementioned, only in a world where cops were exalted as truly enlightened beings on a mission to save humanity would they be worthy of this kind of blowjob from the ONLY supposedly "alt" rag in our beloved excuse for a city...

that's all.

1) agreed...if there's one thing ryan knows about, it's a thing or two about a thing or two.

2) your english/grammar/spelling skills expired just a touch after the first comma.

3) pick a tense, and stick with it.

[Crumpty Williams]

1. El Rhino is a pretty smart dude.
2. Regardless of your political opinions, cops in general are at least somehwat teh ghey (though there are exceptions).
3. Regardless of your thoughts on either of the aforementioned, only in a world where cops were exalted as truly enlightened beings on a mission to save humanity would they be worthy of this kind of blowjob from the ONLY supposedly "alt" rag in our beloved excuse for a city...

that's all.

1) agreed...if there's one thing ryan knows about, it's a thing or two about a thing or two.

2) your english/grammar/spelling skills expired just a touch after the first comma.

3) pick a tense, and stick with it.

...
2) "teh ghey" is "intarweb" talk for "gay."

3) My use of the word "were" was more an example of advanced subjunctive stylee than misplaced past tense.

4) Yes, everything I just said makes complete sense.

[El Rhino]

I still call bullshit on @dam's 15 though.

somehow i knew you would single this out. that number came off the top of my head and is not fact, however, there was one year(in the last few years) where there was something like 12-15 unarmed folks killed by police in a year's time--i remember because i wrote an article about it.

in any case, this was not my central point(which i'm sure you know). take that out and my point remains: putting these people's faces on the front of a newspaper, writing an article that gives no context or background to their situation, then painting the police as heroes that come in and save the day is not only bullshit journalism, but it's really disrespectful and cruel to the folks in the mugshots. it's also misrepresentative of police.

Cityview is one of the worst publications i've ever read, and i've read Juice.

Whether you agree with it or not, the Des Moines PD are in the business of busting bad guys and generally do a decent job of it. Even in a city like Des Moines there are still plenty of scummy people on the streets and I think the po'-lice deserve some sort of accolades/respect for dealing with these people. It is a dangerous job for the greater benefit of our society. Not only do they have to deal with a sometimes hostile criminal element, they also have to deal with hostile citizens who are out to descredit and demonize them whenever possible. Some people are very quick to scream police brutality, racism, abuse of power, over-use of force or something like that whenever a cop does virtually anything, from handing out a speeding ticket up to shooting a dangerous criminal. Yes, sometimes it is warranted to call the cops out on this shit but most of the time it isn't.

I don't remember if you were around several years ago when the cops shot that Garcia guy on Indianola Ave, but there was a big pissing match here where there were a few people screaming about the "fuckin' pigs" and how they shouldn't have shot that kid and basically calling these cops every name in the book. It didn't matter that this guy lead the cops on a wreckless car chase through the city and then stopped and started shooting at them, it's always the cop's fault.

I don't recall a year with anywhere near 12-15 police shootings. A quick google search yields Detroit having had an noteworthy average of 10 a year during some very rough years and NYC having 26 for a high point. Somehow I doubt Des Moines had more police shootings than Detroit (with probably a much more cynical/hardened police force and certainly more violent crime) and half of what a high-crime city of several million people had in a year. I'll give you some credit for admitting that you pulled the number 15 out of nowhere, but it's a little unfair to the cops around here to try to pass something like that as a fact initially. Using "a bunch" or "a lot" would've been a different story. It's kind of like, well, bullshit journalism.

Anyways, on to your main point. I halfway agree with you, I think. It is irresponsible to post mugshots and could be cruel/hurtful/violating their right to privacy to the dudes in the mugshots. I didn't read the article, but if these are people who have not been proven guilty in court, it's especially fucked up. I can't say that I don't laugh at "Sucks To Be You" and I'd probably enjoy this article, but the burden of integrity lies on them, not me.

I partially disagree with you in that you're bitching about the "cheerleading" of the police. Like I said earlier, I believe they deserve some sort of accolades/respect for the job they do as a whole. Unfortunately there are a ton of shitty people in the world and it's their job to deal with them .

[El Rhino]

Haha, thanks, dudes.


btw, I do think Cityview sucks. They usually have some bullshit journalism and hype up a lot of bullshit. I do believe there is a need for something like Cityview in Des Moines (and ad sales/readership confirm this) and it can be a good resource for certain things, but it does suck for an "alternative" newspaper. I would like to see something a little more "edgier" and not all about the patio bar scene and book signings at Barnes & Noble.

Dr. Verne's White Trash Ettiquite was really fuckin' cool though. I remember one day they must've had a guest writer because it was all overly-cliche stuff like "I was cookin' a pot pie in my trailer watching racing..." instead of the more obscure but accurate observations the real Dr. Verne would write. If anyone has the Dr. Verne book, we need to talk.

[joseph]

cityview is better than juice for 1 reason. they have a crossword.

[Beaver]

The only good DSM police officer is a dead one.

[@nonymous]

Whether you agree with it or not, the Des Moines PD are in the business of busting bad guys and generally do a decent job of it. Even in a city like Des Moines there are still plenty of scummy people on the streets and I think the po'-lice deserve some sort of accolades/respect for dealing with these people. It is a dangerous job for the greater benefit of our society. Not only do they have to deal with a sometimes hostile criminal element, they also have to deal with hostile citizens who are out to descredit and demonize them whenever possible. Some people are very quick to scream police brutality, racism, abuse of power, over-use of force or something like that whenever a cop does virtually anything, from handing out a speeding ticket up to shooting a dangerous criminal. Yes, sometimes it is warranted to call the cops out on this shit but most of the time it isn't.

the majority of a police officer's time is spent harassing people. i disagree with you about them deserving a medal for dealing with "shitty" people, but even with that argument that is a minority of their time spent, especially in des moines. by your assessment you'd think the police dept. operates like the fire dept--only "putting out fires" when they start, not cruising around giving people tickets, harassing youth and minorities for no other reason than to utilize their power and occasionally killing an unarmed person with impunity. sorry to say, they demonize themselves.

I'll give you some credit for admitting that you pulled the number 15 out of nowhere, but it's a little unfair to the cops around here to try to pass something like that as a fact initially. Using "a bunch" or "a lot" would've been a different story. It's kind of like, well, bullshit journalism.

there's about 12 in that article alone that you posted from early 2004 to mid 2005, many who were unarmed(dude had a toy gun, dude had a shard of glass, mentally retarded dude that was shot and killed from a high-rise building when he was trying to commit suicide and paramedics had already been called by the family). because there isn't a newspaper article on it also doesn't mean it didn't happen, that's the point.

[joseph]

99 percent of the dsm police ive dealt with have been fine. 99 percent of the mpls police have not

[joseph]

i do agree that it was a shitty article. kinda fun to read the arrest reasons though. i dont think its very "fair" of cityview how they pick and choose which mug shots to run every week.

and whats that phrase "necessary evil"?

[El Rhino]

Uhh, giving out tickets is part of enforcing the law. Usually the way that works is when you get caught by a police officer breaking a law (be it speeding, littering, parking where you shouldn't, etc), they punish you by giving you a ticket. Interesting concept, I know. I highly doubt that youth and minorities NOT engaged in some sort of anti-social behavior get harrassed by the cops all the time so the cops can feel good about the power they have. I have no doubt that youth & minorities engaged in anti-social activity get "harrassed".


Yes, there are about 12 police shootings in that article I posted throughout Iowa over the span of a couple years. One of them was a toy gun, but when the guy pulls that on an officer, what is he supposed to do? Sit there with a bewildered look on his face until he starts shooting, which could kill the officer or others around a split second later? Fuck that, if the guy pulls a gun, drop his ass. If the other guy had a shard of glass (probably a broken bottle) and was presenting himself in a hostile manner like he was going to stab an officer, that merits shooting, I believe. It's not like they go around shooting people who backtalk or give them a dirty look, they pretty much only shoot when they truly believe their life is in danger or the life of someone else.

So are you admitting that there were never 12-15 police shootings in a year in Des Moines or are you saying that there were a bunch more that never made the newspaper? If you say that there were a bunch more that never made the paper, please enlighten us as to how you are privvy to such information and share a little bit.

[@nonymous]

Uhh, giving out tickets is part of enforcing the law. Usually the way that works is when you get caught by a police officer breaking a law (be it speeding, littering, parking where you shouldn't, etc), they punish you by giving you a ticket. Interesting concept, I know. I highly doubt that youth and minorities NOT engaged in some sort of anti-social behavior get harrassed by the cops all the time so the cops can feel good about the power they have. I have no doubt that youth & minorities engaged in anti-social activity get "harrassed".


Yes, there are about 12 police shootings in that article I posted throughout Iowa over the span of a couple years. One of them was a toy gun, but when the guy pulls that on an officer, what is he supposed to do? Sit there with a bewildered look on his face until he starts shooting, which could kill the officer or others around a split second later? Fuck that, if the guy pulls a gun, drop his ass. If the other guy had a shard of glass (probably a broken bottle) and was presenting himself in a hostile manner like he was going to stab an officer, that merits shooting, I believe. It's not like they go around shooting people who backtalk or give them a dirty look, they pretty much only shoot when they truly believe their life is in danger or the life of someone else.

So are you admitting that there were never 12-15 police shootings in a year in Des Moines or are you saying that there were a bunch more that never made the newspaper? If you say that there were a bunch more that never made the paper, please enlighten us as to how you are privvy to such information and share a little bit.

you want to make this about police officers but i'm not going to. this was not the main point i was making and you and i will never agree about police anyway.

the statment--"I highly doubt that youth and minorities NOT engaged in some sort of anti-social behavior get harrassed by the cops all the time so the cops can feel good about the power they have."--leads me to believe you are out of touch with reality.

i'll say it again: the only reason i brought up my frustration with how the police were painted was because of the SUBTEXT that was presented--"police always good. criminals always bad. look at these criminals, look and entertain yourself with what they've done and relish in the fact that you are better than them because you don't break the law, ever, and are from a background and education with which your privilege allows you to be ignorant of others' situation in life."

i'm an anarchist, you're a conservative ex-marine, let's not bore everyone with a discussion about authority, let's stay on topic.

[joseph]

http://www.dmpso911.com/police/dmpdmerchandise.html

lawerrrll

[El Rhino]

leads me to believe you are out of touch with reality.

.

That's kind of funny considering the source. Insert cliche about a pot, a kettle and a racial slur here.


Anyways, carry on with your discussion. I'm still curious about the number of police shootings there were in a year, but fuck it.

[joseph]

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/commis/pib/R ... County.htm

is this the "mentally retarded dude"?

[joseph]

http://www.google.com/custom?sitesearch ... tate.ia.us

im trying to find statistics and wow this aint easy.

[joseph]

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/commis/ucr/2 ... 5leoka.pdf

[@nonymous]

is this the "mentally retarded dude"?

no. its from 2005. it's in the link that rhino posted in this thread.

April 18, 2005: A Des Moines police officer shot and killed Daniel Scott, 38, after paramedics were called to treat a suicidal man who had made cuts on his wrists. Officer Martin Seibert said Scott threatened to shoot and motioned as if he were going to fire a gun. Scott was unarmed.

my sister and i were present for this--it happened near her house on the north east side, but we didn't see the actual shooting. family members were telling police when they got there that he didn't have a weapon and was mentally ill. they shot him anyway.

[joseph]

[quote="@nonymous"][/quote]are you ok? youve been bringing up some weird things lately

[Big Fat Retard]

If Iowegian cops were out killing retards, I would have been dead along time ago. Seriously though, I have had contact with hundreds of cops and I've found that 90% of the time cops will e cool to you if you're not a dick. If you act like an asshole to the cop he will out asshole you tenfold and make your life very miserable.

[Hank Fist]

Once, long ago, i didn't pay a parking ticket in Ames. Two years later I was driving home from a job site in West Des Moines, when i randomly got pulled over by Menards over on Hickman. The cop had run the plates on my '85 Caprice Classic while i was lighting up this huge roach. I quickly extinguished the spliff, and put it in my pants pocket. I guess I had a warrant in Ames for the parking ticket. He decided to meet the Ames police in Ankeny with me. I was searched, but he somehow didn't find the huge roach. Handcuffed and driven to Ankeny, where the Ames cop searched me again. Didn't find roach with rolled up cardboard filter. I was then taken to the Ames jail where they emptied my pockets into one of those bins. I looked in it and saw the huge joint. They put me in jail where I sweated the possession fines and stuff for a while til the woman came with the bail money. I came out, they handed me the bin with roach still in it. I put it all in my pocket. I smoked it when i got home.
The End

[Heshua]

is this the "mentally retarded dude"?

no. its from 2005. it's in the link that rhino posted in this thread.

April 18, 2005: A Des Moines police officer shot and killed Daniel Scott, 38, after paramedics were called to treat a suicidal man who had made cuts on his wrists. Officer Martin Seibert said Scott threatened to shoot and motioned as if he were going to fire a gun. Scott was unarmed.

my sister and i were present for this--it happened near her house on the north east side, but we didn't see the actual shooting. family members were telling police when they got there that he didn't have a weapon and was mentally ill. they shot him anyway.

Then you and your sister were not present for the shooting. Do you mean you wandered over there after the shooting, and were present for the aftermath?