515 Crew

I really, really doubt WP will leave clothes intact. It just burns whatever will burn.

did you view the photos of WP victims in the middle link?

Just did... I don't know what to say about their clothes. I do know that WP can be used to burn things, as well as brown people so I assume it'd burn up some cotton.

First rule of geek boards...

the united states armed forces has used, uses presently, and will continue to use biological and chemical weapons.

Hey, if it works, why not do it?

while I'll never doubt that the people sending us into war are sucking on satan's cock, in the back of my mind I always hope that the people actually performing the operations are trying their best to minimize the loss of innocent life.. then, I hear of entire neighborhoods being indiscriminately bombed with this stuff. at least with a conventional bomb you have a good chance of dying instantly.. rather than burning to death in a fire that can't be extinguished.

Joey Chaos wrote:Hey, if it works, why not do it?

because, as Americans, we hold ourselves to certain standards. the same reason we "don't" torture, and the same reason we see fit to deem ourselves the moral authority of the world.

The willy pete rounds are just the same as conventional high-explosive rounds. If you get hit by one of those, you're dead just as quick. The likelihood of getting wounded is just the same (if not slightly less) as standard high explosive rounds.

You would be suprised of the level of caution used to avoid civillian casualties. I think some people are under the impression that some Iraqi shoots at Americans and a few seconds later theres .50 rounds going everywhere, "Puff The Magic Dragon" up above, "steel rain", "whiskey pete" and planes dropping all kinds of shit all over.

No one is allowed to shoot unless there is positive identification. The same goes for artillery, airstrikes and so-on. Sometimes they're off, but an effort is made each and every time. I had to go through three rungs on the chain of command (taking me to the battalion commander) if I wanted to call in anything above illumination rounds (which do nothing but burn WP up in the sky and illuminate the sky. Very useful sometimes though).

The military has let its hair down a little bit during major campaigns (the only one I can think of is Fallujah) and were a little more inclined to approve of airstrikes/artillery, but that's about it. More civillians are being killed now by Iraqis doing stupid shit than coalition forces, hands down.

Long story short, Willie Pete isn't so bad and civillians are being spared at all costs.


Eddie: Let's hear about these biological and chemical weapons.

robdigi wrote:

Joey Chaos wrote:Hey, if it works, why not do it?

because, as Americans, we hold ourselves to certain standards. the same reason we "don't" torture, and the same reason we see fit to deem ourselves the moral authority of the world.

Hey, let me start shit here, alright?

I'll take your word as far as how WP works in the battlefield. My original sources were biased, but presented enough supporting info for me to lend some credibility. Other info I've read along with what you've told me leads me to believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

While we've got a dialogue going, I'll take this in another direction.

The insurgency/other Iraqis may or may not be the leading cause of civilian casualties now, but that certainly isn't the case taking the history of the war into account. Civilian deaths from coalition fire aren't consistently calculated, while victims of the insurgency are. I don't think anyone can say what the current leading cause is, because there is no scientific process keeping track that I am aware of.

(edit: THIS IS A LINK!) John Hopkins Iraqi Casualty Study - the most scientifically sound study of Iraqi casualties since the beginning of the war.


Airstrikes by coalition forces have accounted for the majority of violent civilian deaths, as of Sept. 2004. At that time, "Major combat" had ended, and the insurgency was in full swing. I don't have any data, but the media seems to indicate that the level of violence has remained somewhat consistent since then. Furthermore, to quote the study "Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces. Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children. The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8·1–419) than in the period before the war."

I'm not sure where the blame lies, but I interperet this as a ham-fisted approach to striking at an enemy that clearly hides within an innocent population. All precautions are not being taken. Perhaps every precaution pertaining to that approach, but the problem lies in the approach itself. I'm not a military strategist, but we have to be capable of something better.


I also suggest everyone read that study. It's definitely eye-opening. There is also an episode of This American Life that goes into detail and tells the story of the people conducting the survey, which I feel is important for everyone to hear. You can find it at the top of the 2005 Archive at http://www.thislife.org. (edit: this episode also tells the story of coalition troops and the situations they are put in, and how they deal with civilian casualities, which is also important.)

Joey Chaos wrote:
Hey, let me start shit here, alright?

Not in my thread, sucka.

retards sometimes use whiskey pete in "glow in the dark" or "blacklight" tattoo ink. put that in yer sky and smoke it. huh?

UNDER THE MICROSCOPE VOLUME FOUR:promiscuus gelamen

Derek Lambert http://www.myspace.com/derekdlambert
Leap Year http://www.myspace.com/leapyearband
Vampire Hands http://www.myspace.com/vampirehands
Oh possum http://www.myspace.com/ohpossum
Taciturn http://www.myspace.com/taciturn
Under the Microscope myspace.com/underthemic or underthemic.com

March 16th
Vaudeville Mews
Show is 5pm-Done
$4 for 21- & $7 for 21+
Free UTM volume four:promiscuus gelamen mixtape cassette to
the first 50 people.

More info coming soon!

did phpbb just take a shit on adam's post?

I'm pretty confused, but those pics might give me nightmares

Is there just going to be the cassettes? No CD-Rs?

The show(music) is starting right at 5pm, plan to get there early!!
Why? cuz the first 50 people get the limited cassettes
and also you don't want to miss any of the beginning or welll...any of it!
Here is the actual lineup!

5pm Derek Lambert
5:30 Oh possum
6:00 Leap year
6:30 Vampire hands
7:00 Taciturn

I know the times look off but we are tryin our best to jam pack a tight all ALL AGES gig for ya, should be really intense!
<3 a

p.s. bands on mixtape or the show-- holla if you can help promo this event in town!

top to remind people how early and crucial this show is

vampire hands are seriously the best band i have seen in the past year if not two

Is Taciturn playing for two hours??

good point!

vampire hands covered stooges' dirt and tv eye in ames the other week, but somehow i doubt they can fit covers into (less than) half hour set

I wanna see Stooges covers.

Start this show later, Adam! What the hell?

I'm excited to see Taciturn as a three piece.

Leap Year had to drop out of the show so
the other bands will be able to play normal length sets.
We will be starting right at 5 and only
the first 50 peoples get the special cassettes!
They are going to be finished tonight-i'll try and post a pic!
<3a

Leap Year had to drop out of the show so
the other bands will be able to play normal length sets.
We will be starting right at 5 and only
the first 50 peoples get the special cassettes!
They are going to be finished tonight-i'll try and post a pic!
<3 a

...

Ace Wilde wrote:retards sometimes use whiskey pete in "glow in the dark" or "blacklight" tattoo ink. put that in yer sky and smoke it. huh?

http://desmoines.metromix.com/events/ar ... 71/content

Cory, go to this show and get me a tape, I will be in California.