515 Crew

Everything Rhino said is true. Get a job, scum dogs.

I'll be honest, I haven't read all this, but the idea of having to pay $100 for a membership just to book a show at a DIY venue is pretty fucked. I'm WAY behind the idea of a new space in Des Moines and acknowledge that it needs money to sustain itself, but the idea of having a monetary barrier before booking shows is a bad idea. I'm alright with the space taking x amount of dollars per show, but anybody should be able to book a show.

Shane wrote:I'll be honest, I haven't read all this, but the idea of having to pay $100 for a membership just to book a show at a DIY venue is pretty fucked. I'm WAY behind the idea of a new space in Des Moines and acknowledge that it needs money to sustain itself, but the idea of having a monetary barrier before booking shows is a bad idea. I'm alright with the space taking x amount of dollars per show, but anybody should be able to book a show.

Organization is still an essential part of running a successful DIY collective like this though. If there isn't any sort of organization and anybody can book a show (without having a vested interest in the collective itself), I don't think that the collective would be as successful. And like you said...it takes money to run a space like this. Memberships are a great way to generate money. They offer incentive for people to give money, donate time and put forth for the effort to make the collective a great place. And really...$100 a year is like $8 a month. Pretty cheap if you ask me.

I think that's pretty standard for members to be the ones allowed to book shows at collectives like this across the country. From what I've seen anyway? And anybody could technically still book a show, as long as they go through a booker who is a member (which would be a easy process). It would be as simple as finding a booker off the website listing and contacting them. Something like:

Joe Schmoe - joe.schmoe@gmail.com
[pop-punk, folk, punk, thrash, and ska]

Ray Nobody - mr.nobody@gmail.com
[hardcore]

Captain DIY - dude.brah@hotmail.com
[punk, thrash, indie, folk, pretty much anything]

Ghostman - ghostmandan@gmail.com
[punk rock, death rock, dark wave, graveyard music and voodoo beats]

Mary Jones - maryjones@humanconduct.org
[folky, experimental, avant-garde, noisy, DIY, political speakers/workshops/screenings, activism, zine library, etc.]

Dr. Doom - dr.doom@yahoo.com
[noise, power electronics, black metal, crust, and hardcore]

Yeah I will never book at this place if I have to front $100, pay $60 the day of the show, and give a cut of the door still. I wouldn't even think of doing it if it was only the first two. Not that I'm some huge promoter like Joe Schmo, but if you want to keep bands from still thinking the midwest is a money pit, you are going to have to pay them too at some point. If you want to list your name and get every show that comes to Des Moines thrown at you be my guest, but chances are you going to end up broke, and booking a lot of music you have no interest throwing $60 into the toilet and attending.

Nickyouredead wrote:Yeah I will never book at this place if I have to front $100, pay $60 the day of the show, and give a cut of the door still. I wouldn't even think of doing it if it was only the first two. Not that I'm some huge promoter like Joe Schmo, but if you want to keep bands from still thinking the midwest is a money pit, you are going to have to pay them too at some point. If you want to list your name and get every show that comes to Des Moines thrown at you be my guest, but chances are you going to end up broke, and booking a lot of music you have no interest throwing $60 into the toilet and attending.

That's exactly why I started this thread though....to have a discussion and come up with ideas. That was just one idea that I sort of borrowed from how other successful collectives operate. I'm not saying that is the way it has to be in Des Moines, but it's something.

Here are a list of DIY collectives that operate pretty much the way I proposed and they are all successful. Maybe it wouldn't work in Des Moines, as there wouldn't be enough interest/involvment?

Charm City Art Space (Baltimore, MD) http://www.ccspace.org/
Borg Ward (Milwaukee, WI) http://www.theborgward.org/
The Flywheel (Easthampton, Mass) http://www.flywheelarts.org
The Emerald Space (Kansas City, MO) http://www.myspace.com/collectivekc
924 Gilman (Berkley, CA) http://www.924gilman.org/
ABC No Rio (NYC, NY) http://www.abcnorio.org/
Lemp Arts Center (St. Louis, MO) http://www.lemp-arts.org/index.php
The Wonderroot (Atlanta, GA) http://www.wonderroot.org/
Transitions Art Gallery (Tampa, FL) http://transitionsartgallery.com/about.php
The Blackbox Collective (Orlando, FL) http://www.myspace.com/theblackboxcollective
The Hexagon Space (Baltimore, MD) http://hexagonspace.com/
Modified Arts (Phoenix, AZ) http://modified.org/

It's nothing. No one is going to pay a $160 minimum to book a single show. Might as well book it at the Vaudeville Mews for only $75.

-Joe.

If no memberships or nominal fees to book shows (compared to other venues), how do you propose the establishment generates money to pay lease/utilities/operating costs then? The money has to come from somewhere. Again, I'm just throwing out ideas. I'm as open to any ideas as everyone else. I'd like to hear other ideas.

Nick wrote:

Nickyouredead wrote:Yeah I will never book at this place if I have to front $100, pay $60 the day of the show, and give a cut of the door still. I wouldn't even think of doing it if it was only the first two. Not that I'm some huge promoter like Joe Schmo, but if you want to keep bands from still thinking the midwest is a money pit, you are going to have to pay them too at some point. If you want to list your name and get every show that comes to Des Moines thrown at you be my guest, but chances are you going to end up broke, and booking a lot of music you have no interest throwing $60 into the toilet and attending.

That's exactly why I started this thread though....to have a discussion and come up with ideas. That was just one idea that I sort of borrowed from how other successful collectives operate. I'm not saying that is the way it has to be in Des Moines, but it's something.

Here are a list of DIY collectives that operate pretty much the way I proposed and they are all successful. Maybe it wouldn't work in Des Moines as their wouldn't be enough interest/involvment?

Charm City Art Space (Baltimore, MD) http://www.ccspace.org/
Borg Ward (Milwaukee, WI) http://www.theborgward.org/
The Flywheel (Easthampton, Mass) http://www.flywheelarts.org
The Emerald Space (Kansas City, MO) http://www.myspace.com/collectivekc
924 Gilman (Berkley, CA) http://www.924gilman.org/
ABC No Rio (NYC, NY) http://www.abcnorio.org/
Lemp Arts Center (St. Louis, MO) http://www.lemp-arts.org/index.php
The Wonderroot (Atlanta, GA) http://www.wonderroot.org/
Transitions Art Gallery (Tampa, FL) http://transitionsartgallery.com/about.php
The Blackbox Collective (Orlando, FL) http://www.myspace.com/theblackboxcollective
The Hexagon Space (Baltimore, MD) http://hexagonspace.com/
Modified Arts (Phoenix, AZ) http://modified.org/

And I am just telling you that I personally wouldn't participate with booking if that was the way it is. If you and 3 other people (if you are lucky) want to try and handle that, go for it. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but I am definitely going to be real about it.

shit wont work. stop wasting your time.

Joe wrote:It's nothing. No one is going to pay a $160 minimum to book a single show. Might as well book it at the Vaudeville Mews for only $75.

-Joe.

This right here.

I don't propose anything. Des Moines has been bleak since '03, and I don't think it's going to change any time soon. What Adam's proposing isn't going to get paid for. $800 a month? And Sweet Bee couldn't even do $700. Yeah, good luck with that.

LOST CAUSE (ting).

Yeah, I'm negative, but I'm just keeping your motherfuckers in reality here.

-Joe.

Nickyouredead wrote:

Joe wrote:It's nothing. No one is going to pay a $160 minimum to book a single show. Might as well book it at the Vaudeville Mews for only $75.

-Joe.

This right here.

Fair enough. I like the Mews just fine and think it is clearly the best venue in town. It would be nice to have an alternative as well though, that also serves different purposes.

Nickyouredead wrote:People book shows at Vaudeville all the time, why don't you just try that? If you don't have faith in people showing up for a show there I don't know how you expect them to show up and fund a DIY space.

this also.

Nick wrote:

Nickyouredead wrote:

Joe wrote:It's nothing. No one is going to pay a $160 minimum to book a single show. Might as well book it at the Vaudeville Mews for only $75.

-Joe.

This right here.

Fair enough. I like the Mews just fine and think it is clearly the best venue in town. It would be nice to have an alternative as well though, that also serves different purposes.

there are. the beechwood lounge and now the underground.

Bullet Tooth wrote:there are. the beechwood lounge and now the underground.

Neither do All Ages shows. Fail. There are probaly lots of kids who would be interested in go to shows at those places too, but they can't.

again, the project our group is working on is not primarily a music venue-to be clear. if folks are talking about starting their own venue, best of luck.

as for the community space-there are plenty of ways to generate income. the one thing you don't want is randomness. if someone walks in and there's a few magazines, some records and trinkets for sale in a big space...it's confusing.

it's also too ambitious to think that we will have anywhere near the startup costs needed to have enough merchandise to make the bulk of the money needed to sustain.

ideas we're working on w/ our group:

silent investors-people who have money to invest in the idea but aren't interested in being hands on(one or two are involved in our group already);

branching out-one idea was to talk to a local coffee shop about donating/providing basic equipment to have a simple espresso bar with only a few options and some other beverages to generate income at events(the business would have their logo present and could promote it at our events-and obviously would own the equipment);

outreach-reaching out and providing space to groups and individuals disenfranchised with venues like the Des Moines Social Club and setting up sliding-scale donations to participate;

tiered "sustainer" pledges-providing easy ways folks can help sustain the space by monetary or other means

obviously getting other groups and generating buzz about the idea is very important. we have some art show benefits coming up and part of the proceeds of the art that is hanging at Best Place Ever right now will also go towards the space.

get at me for weekly meeting times.

Nick wrote:

Bullet Tooth wrote:there are. the beechwood lounge and now the underground.

Neither do All Ages shows. Fail. There are probaly lots of kids who would be interested in go to shows at those places too, but they can't.

you'd be wrong.

@nonymous wrote: branching out-one idea was to talk to a local coffee shop about donating/providing basic equipment to have a simple espresso bar with only a few options and some other beverages to generate income at events(the business would have their logo present and could promote it at our events-and obviously would own the equipment);

Hey...at least this already has over 3 times the replies and more views than the Marijuana Thread.

I want to see this happen just as much as anyone else here but the simple fact of it is that it will never work here in Des Moines. There is absolutely no DIY scene here with the exception of the few people who post on here. There are no kids coming up that would support this minus Shane and Krook. As much as it sucks to say this but it just will not work here. The only way we are going to be able to get something going as far as a DIY Venue would be to have a new house venue open. That is it.

Everyone who has said this won't work in Des Moines, is most likely correct and I realize that. I even said in my first post, this would be very hard to pull off and it probably wouldn't happen.

BUT...it seems Adam and the people he is meeting with actually have some interest in a community space. Granted, the focus is not music, but he does seem open to the idea of having an occasional show. Anyone with any interest should probably rally support behind his cause...even if it means they only have a 1 or 2 shows a month or something.

Nick wrote:BUT...it seems Adam and the people he is meeting with actually have some interest in a community space. Granted, the focus is not music, but he does seem open to the idea of having an occasional show. Anyone with any interest should probably rally support behind his cause...even if it means they only have a 1 or 2 shows a month or something.

Sweet Bee had a grand total of 4 shows. I don't see this space being much different.

-Joe.

I hate all ages shows. Fuck the kids.

nick wrote:BUT...it seems Adam and the people he is meeting with actually have some interest in a community space. Granted, the focus is not music, but he does seem open to the idea of having an occasional show.

if the space allows, there can be more than two shows a month. i want a music venue just as much as anyone, but it can't sustain itself here with that model alone.

joe wrote:Sweet Bee had a grand total of 4 shows. I don't see this space being much different.

to be fair, sweet bee was never intended to be a music venue by any shape of the imagination--our landlord just happened to let us use the warehouse space as part of our lease agreement. that was a first attempt, and the way it was run clearly wasn't sustainable. unlike that project, though, those involved now each have a vested and personal interest in the space and can donate both time and money. this will be nothing like the infoshop.

@nonymous wrote:

joe wrote:Sweet Bee had a grand total of 4 shows. I don't see this space being much different.

to be fair, sweet bee was never intended to be a music venue by any shape of the imagination--our landlord just happened to let us use the warehouse space as part of our lease agreement. that was a first attempt, and the way it was run clearly wasn't sustainable. unlike that project, though, those involved now each have a vested and personal interest in the space and can donate both time and money. this will be nothing like the infoshop.

I wasn't living in Des Moines when the Sweet Bee Infoshop was operating, but I fully back what you are trying to do now, dude. I still plan on coming down and chatting with you sometime soon. Sounds legit.

I'll support whatever ends up happening. I just want to be able to see bands and play shows without traveling 2 hours.

El Rhino wrote:

@nonymous wrote: branching out-one idea was to talk to a local coffee shop about donating/providing basic equipment to have a simple espresso bar with only a few options and some other beverages to generate income at events(the business would have their logo present and could promote it at our events-and obviously would own the equipment);

this is killing me

joseph wrote:

Nick wrote:

joseph wrote:honestly i dont think anyone cares enough to be responsible for it and pay for it. if youve havent noticed people in des moines dont really get along for all that long. BUT- id go if somebody did.

The biggest hurdle in operating a legit DIY space is finding dedicated and well-organized people who care enough to keep it going. And I think you are right, Joseph...that is something the people in the "DIY scene" in Des Moines don't really want to be responsible or have any care of doing, unfortunately.

not to be a dick but i know itll get brought up. youre not part of des moines scene YET.

this statement is stupid. someone let you idiots in, someone let us in when we were idiots, so by your ideology do some people in bands that youve watched "not part of the scene... YET?" concidering they only go to their own shows? your scene bites, i thought this was just underground

Nam wrote:

joseph wrote:not to be a dick but i know itll get brought up. youre not part of des moines scene YET.

this statement is stupid. someone let you idiots in, someone let us in when we were idiots, so by your ideology do some people in bands that youve watched "not part of the scene... YET?" concidering they only go to their own shows? your scene bites, i thought this was just underground

everybody takes my sarcasm wrong. i was pointing out that someone on this forum would bring it up and was trying to prepare him for it. i dont give a shit if anybody does anything.

joseph wrote:

Nam wrote:

joseph wrote:not to be a dick but i know itll get brought up. youre not part of des moines scene YET.

this statement is stupid. someone let you idiots in, someone let us in when we were idiots, so by your ideology do some people in bands that youve watched "not part of the scene... YET?" concidering they only go to their own shows? your scene bites, i thought this was just underground

everybody takes my sarcasm wrong. i was pointing out that someone on this forum would bring it up and was trying to prepare him for it. i dont give a shit if anybody does anything.

right on

joseph wrote:everybody takes my sarcasm wrong. i was pointing out that someone on this forum would bring it up and was trying to prepare him for it. i dont give a shit if anybody does anything.

I knew what you were saying, dude.