515 Crew

DARKBASS wrote:Ok, I saw this awhile back. I have plenty of experience in this area.

Yeah, no shit you do, because you try to get on every fucking show that comes through town- whether or not it even makes sense. Why the fuck would you open for Cattle Decapitation or Black Dahlia Murder or Arsis or any of these types of bands? Do you not understand your band doesn't fit the bill? "Well I like different kinds of metal and other people do too." Yep, well why doesn't Epica tour with Cannibal Corpse? There's a reason for it. Why are you trying to get on EVERY fucking bill possible? It clearly hasn't helped you at all. Why don't you hop on a bill with Zac Brown? Fuck, you would probably kill to see a Zac Brown/Dark Mirror marquee.

My band is on one "pay to play" show currently.

One? ONE?? Are you sure it's only ONE? Are you sure you just didn't forget about any others? How many have you ALREADY BEEN ON?




THANKS.






"jk"

That was a true statement. Currently, we are involved with one show that would fit the "pay to play bill"

If Zac Brown or someone related to him asked us to play a show. Yes, we would accept. No, we would not consider selling tickets to play with Zac Brown. I am unable to think of one Zac Brown song off of the top of my head.

Also, whether you would agree that we belong on a bill with Deicide or not.....the people whom paid to see the show, and Glen Benton, at least seemed to enjoy our set.


If we were on every pay to play show in town we would be in debt and we would be on the Jeff Loomis and Opeth shows coming up.

Again, to reiterate, I don't agree with this business model and if a band does in fact sell the tickets that they agree to sell to be part of this type of show, pay to play would be a misnomer. I did see the Zac Brown band do the national anthem before the game earlier today, they sounded pretty good.

Here's my more than likely unwanted $1.50 worth.

First off and for most no band should ever pay to play. There is a great deal of reasons but the biggest is that as mentioned earlier, it only makes for lazy promoters.

The biggest problem facing promoters is as a middle man they are taking a majority of the risk. Often the main talents guarantee is so large that a majority of the promotion cost is going to talent. So it isn't really the high profit business everyone seems to think it is. If you consider that if the show turns a profit, the promoter is lucky to walk out with 10 or 20 percent of the gate and that's on a good night.

I think the biggest problem is that the venues do not understand that having live music at their venue is a promotion and a form of advertising. Let's face there isn't a member of this board that hasn't gone to a bar or shit hole that they wouldn't have if they didn't have a shows. The fact that they are unwilling to even consider that they should be taking part of the risk or contributing to the income of the promoters, is the root of the problem. I was lucky to work with a number of people that understood that even though the show lost money there was a great number of customers there than there would have been if there wasn't a show. So they were willing to back shows and pitch in when shows lost money. Now time and time again, I hear of venues charging promoters venue fees on top of their alcohol and other profits. Basically squeezing the promoter even more.

The motivation behind paying to play is exposure and if a band feels that that exposure is worth it they will pay. Usually the appearance of pay to play is a reaction of over saturation. Too many bands and too few venues. That isn't the case in Des Moines. Granted I do not see anywhere near the bands I once did but it seems to me Des Moines is still suffering from the same problem it always has, too little talented bands for the shows that are going on.

When I promoted there was a number of times that I asked local bands to help sell tickets and promote shows. In most cases the band themselves offered. However it never effected how much the band was paid. The one thing that I will pass along, the bands that worked shows, promoted them and drew, were the first on the call list. The whole point of having a local on a national bill is to insure additional ticket sales. If a band has the talent, the following and the work ethic, then they were always worth more to me than trying to make additional money by sticking them with buying tickets.

This all is nothing new. Eric and I started a booking agency and management company in the late 90s to help bands get around pay to play. The main reason was overhearing a conversation between two "Promoters" that did a local festival at Clear Water. They went on and on about all the money they made, claiming well over $5000 and when I asked one of the bands how much they got paid. They told me $100 and this was after they sold 20 tickets that they bought at half price. Sure nothing came out of their pocket but still.

DaVo wrote:I think the biggest problem is that the venues do not understand that having live music at their venue is a promotion and a form of advertising. Let's face there isn't a member of this board that hasn't gone to a bar or shit hole that they wouldn't have if they didn't have a shows.

this is a good point that hasnt been brought up.

i think you can probably count a lot of this to owners of the venues are more "hands off" so its left to a booker and sound guy and bartender to make sure the shows go well. so then you have more personal ego involved.

and honestly why should a bartender/soundperson give a fuck about some bands? theryre paid less than minimum wage and rely on tips,,,,, then they gotta play some game that they get no benefit from except maybe an extra tip here and there... sometimes its worth it not to make that extra effort/buck.

joseph wrote:

DaVo wrote:I think the biggest problem is that the venues do not understand that having live music at their venue is a promotion and a form of advertising. Let's face there isn't a member of this board that hasn't gone to a bar or shit hole that they wouldn't have if they didn't have a shows.

this is a good point that hasnt been brought up.

i think you can probably count a lot of this to owners of the venues are more "hands off" so its left to a booker and sound guy and bartender to make sure the shows go well. so then you have more personal ego involved.

and honestly why should a bartender/soundperson give a fuck about some bands? theryre paid less than minimum wage and rely on tips,,,,, then they gotta play some game that they get no benefit from except maybe an extra tip here and there... sometimes its worth it not to make that extra effort/buck.

Well, having the bartender running it can be a blessing and a curse depending on the person's motivation. Since a majority of his/her income depends on the draw of the bands and the amount of people in the bar, keying in on what people want and what bands draw should be their focus. The problem is that usually even though the have a majority of the responsibility, they have no say or input into the real decisions on who is playing there. Thus it does become just another job.

When I was talent buying, I tried to poll the bartenders and ask for input on shows because they were the ones that had the most interaction with the customers. The bar staff was who they bitched about the band to and who they asked what bands were coming up and weather this band or that was playing.

Now this worked a lot better when venues were more like clubhouses and less like venues as they are today. I think it is safe to say that most of these people working in these barns have any regulars or really any passion at all for the bands that are playing there. I can't remember the last time I saw a band tender during a show that didn't look bored out of their mind and wished they were somewhere else.

I think the worst job in any venue short of cleaning up the men's restroom has to be that of the soundman. They are stuck and regardless of their personal tastes, they have to stand there and watch every single band. Over time I don't think it's hard to imagine that they tend to get really burned out and it becomes nothing more than a job.

The booker or talent buyer seems increasingly less someone that is trying to build an event and more of someone that simply fills dates. None of them start out this way but it seems over time they become more and more a scheduler than a promoter. It's easy to get burned out and it's a trap I fill into a couple of times. This idea that it's Saturday and we must have band regardless. The thing is that it is part of the talent buyers responsibility as house booker, to insure that the reputation of the venue is upheld. They should be the ones standing up the promoters and insuring that everything is on the up and up.

i wish there were more pinball machines

http://vaudevillemews.com/index.php?p=home&sId=2392


Battle of the Bands!Sun, March 10, Doors: 4:00 pm - Show: 4:30 pm - All Ages - $10 Artist Website
Gorilla Music presents...

Battle of the Bands, Band Management & Gigs For Local Bands
The Battle of the Bands has become more popular than ever. It is attracting huge crowds and a mammoth amount of interest in local music scenes across the country. Gorilla Music works with prestigious concert clubs in over 65 cities nationwide. Gorilla Music helps to opens doors for local bands hoping to make an impact within their music scene.

Through a battle of the bands, groups are able to gain experience, play in great venues for great crowds, and learn more about the music business itself. Groups recognize that a battle of the bands can help them build a fan base, improve their bio, and gain the respect of their fans, other bands, promoters, and club owners. Winning a battle of the bands is the fastest way to take your group to the next level. Seeing that crowd and hearing hundreds of people screaming your group’s name will make an incredible impact on everyone there the night of your performance. Gorilla Music events are some of the biggest local shows in the country and probably the world.

After a battle of the bands, groups are cherry-picked for other gigs, concerts and other opportunities. Our regional and national music fests attract thousands of people including fans, record label reps, and talent scouts. Our weekend showcases help groups define their status in their market place and actually increase their value to clubs and fans alike. In addition to all our great shows and gigs we have an amazing Band Management Program and learning center, with literature and educational videos available online.

http://www.gorillamusic.com/

Get down!
http://lazerfest.lazer1033.com/line-up/ ... the-bands/

Hypothetical scenario:

1. I want to go to Overkill (I do, actually)

2. I don't know it's a pay to play show (I didn't)

3. I just go and pay at the door (I was going to)

Who gets my money? And who gets screwed? I didn't know bands had to sell them, otherwise I would have bought it from one of them, like DARKBASS. But the flyer doesn't say to buy tickets from opening bands. It says just to buy tickets from a ticket company or pay at the door.

I do not support. I think Joe's idea is brilliant: WE get 50 people together who all like a band who is coming through at a pay to play show, buy the 50 tickets and then all show up and make noise! Everybody wins, and WE all get to see the band we like for the price of one ticket each.

buck rotten wrote:Hypothetical scenario:

3. I just go and pay at the door (I was going to)

Who gets my money? And who gets screwed? I didn't know bands had to sell them, otherwise I would have bought it from one of them, like DARKBASS. But the flyer doesn't say to buy tickets from opening bands. It says just to buy tickets from a ticket company or pay at the door.

i hate this dilemma. in paying the band that is "paying to play" it supports the whole idea. but in paying the venue day of show(when it costs more) only the band that agreed to the "pay to play" gets burned. the venue doesnt, the promoter doesnt. BUT if you pay the band then the "pay to play" is working which is not the desired outcome. correct?

and im not saying any band doing this is in the wrong. i guess it comes down to what/how you want to feel about yourself. theres venues in town i absolutely will not go to unless there is a band i want to see. then i will pay the door price but i will buy nothing from the venue(drinks, food) but if i get a tap water i will tip the bartender. so... it goes to personal responsibility? how do you feel about you?

I wish they'd at least say 'or purchase tickets from one of our opening bands' on the flyer.

buck rotten wrote:I wish they'd at least say 'or purchase tickets from one of our opening bands' on the flyer.

thatd be nice but i think the promoter is looking at it like theyve already sold those tickets(even though its on the band to actually do that) so they want people to purchase them from the venue or ticket outlet to up their presales.

and im pretty sure that if (just made up numbers by me) the band agrees to sell 50 tickets at $1 each that if they only sell 25 tickets they have to cough up the other $25. at least thats how i assumed that how it works? someone correct me if im confused.

buck rotten wrote:Hypothetical scenario:

1. I want to go to Overkill (I do, actually)

doesnt matter now. tour is cancelled.

http://wreckingcrew.com/Ironbound/?p=1294

You know best, reeferseed.

Cowabunga! Tonight at Wooly's, we play with Green Death, Thee Annunaki, & Murder Earth!!!!

Doors at 6:30pm

All-Ages

If you have not checked out Woolys yet, this would be a good chance as tickets are only $5!!!!

We have refunded, at last count, 42 out of 50 overkill tickets that we sold. If you still need your refund from us and are attending let us know tonight! If you are not attending just private message us on here or send us an email. This is now a 100 percent local music show without a headliner so let's see who puts their money where their mouth is about this topic!

I just like playing shows.