515 Crew

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:08 pm**

Beaver wrote:Backing the Bullet. These queers only go for the drugs and noodle dancing. Any thing resembling to the "nostalgic" hippy community in the DSM area - DO NOT WANT.

I saw you noodle dancing at the Underground once. I also heard you have the largest collection of Grateful Dead and Phish shows on cassette in the Midwest.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:10 pm**

Big Fat Retard wrote:
Bullet Tooth wrote:like nick said, its one big party. whats hard to figure out? prove me wrong.

find even 1 person that agrees with you and i'll take back my statement.
I don't need to prove you or anyone else wrong. I know I'm right and you're wrong. End of story.

Beaver wrote:Backing the Bullet. These queers only go for the drugs and noodle dancing. Any thing resembling to the "nostalgic" hippy community in the DSM area - DO NOT WANT.

WHOOPS

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:11 pm**

I was not noodle dancing, and it was horrible free form jazz. I think Ive only stepped in that place once since then. Id rather go to Locust Tap.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:35 pm**

Beaver wrote:I was not noodle dancing, and it was horrible free form jazz. I think Ive only stepped in that place once since then. Id rather go to Locust Tap.

youve really never seen yourself dance, have you?

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:23 pm**

Nick wrote: I also believe a successful and legitimate DIY venue, you have to have it be drug/alcohol free.

I would say the opposite is true. If you ban drinking, it's really going to limit the number of people coming in. People can whine all they want about how it should be all about the music or whatever, but outside of straightedge cliques the whole experience of drinking a beer, seeing a band and acting (reasonably) retarded is what the majority of people are looking for. I don't know if this scenario conflicts with laws specific to Des Moines, but a donation at the door BYOB situation is probably the best way to pull this sort of thing off. Rhinoceropolis in Denver has been using this model for a long time, and it's been pretty successful. It also doubles as an art space/studio/hangout when there aren't shows going on. Or you could take the art gallery approach and serve alcohol at no charge but with a "suggested donation" (though this would probably end up being too expensive for anything other than cheapo beer). As long as there is a reasonable effort to stop underage drinking, there isn't a whole lot of liability to worry about. Maybe Des Moines has some super strict laws about this that I don't know about, these sort of places seem to prosper everywhere else.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:56 pm**

there is serious talk and organizing taking place currently for a community space in dsm. it will absolutely be drug/alcohol free and will be operated by those who put in effort(meaning, unlike the social club if you put in time/effort/money, you can help shape the direction of the space).

currently there are artists, musicians, myself and a few others working on this to help best create a diverse space.

in no way shape or form will this be like the haunted basement, but depending on the location we choose we hope to do shows. if anyone here is interested in taking part let me know or email info@desmoinesmutualaid.info

or good luck with whatever space someone comes up with. the more the better.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:06 pm**

@nonymous wrote:there is serious talk and organizing taking place currently for a community space in dsm. it will absolutely be drug/alcohol free and will be operated by those who put in effort(meaning, unlike the social club if you put in time/effort/money, you can help shape the direction of the space).

currently there are artists, musicians, myself and a few others working on this to help best create a diverse space.

in no way shape or form will this be like the haunted basement, but depending on the location we choose we hope to do shows. if anyone here is interested in taking part let me know or email info@desmoinesmutualaid.info

or good luck with whatever space someone comes up with. the more the better.

Interested.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:10 pm**

tylerjames515 wrote:Interested.

are you into bike stuff? or did i just make that up. one faction of the organizing collective is working on having some bike repair workshops and a yellow bike program(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_sharing_system)

or general interest is cool too. get at me and i'll tell you when the next meeting is.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:16 pm**

i should amend my post to say that it will be 99% alcohol free. it will host art shows and the like to which, if those involved are comfortable, there could be alcohol present for those events.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:31 pm**

@nonymous wrote:
tylerjames515 wrote:Interested.
are you into bike stuff? or did i just make that up. one faction of the organizing collective is working on having some bike repair workshops and a yellow bike program(see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_sharing_system)

or general interest is cool too. get at me and i'll tell you when the next meeting is.

Indeed I am sir. That would be pretty awesome. I know the dsm bike collective has classes for repairing/fixing up your bike but I'm not sure how a lot of people feel about their prices. 4 classes - $80, or $25 per night & they only do them every so often.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:32 pm**

@nonymous wrote:there is serious talk and organizing taking place currently for a community space in dsm. it will absolutely be drug/alcohol free and will be operated by those who put in effort(meaning, unlike the social club if you put in time/effort/money, you can help shape the direction of the space).

currently there are artists, musicians, myself and a few others working on this to help best create a diverse space.

in no way shape or form will this be like the haunted basement, but depending on the location we choose we hope to do shows. if anyone here is interested in taking part let me know or email info@desmoinesmutualaid.info

or good luck with whatever space someone comes up with. the more the better.

If live live music is going to be part of the vision of the collective, then this sounds exactly what I was thinking. Also interested!

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:38 pm**

tylerjames515 wrote:Indeed I am sir. That would be pretty awesome. I know the dsm bike collective has classes for repairing/fixing up your bike but I'm not sure how a lot of people feel about their prices. 4 classes - $80, or $25 per night & they only do them every so often.

one of us volunteers at the bike collective, so we'll certainly talk to them about this stuff. but they are reluctant to do any free work so as to not impede on the commercial interests of the for-profit bike shops in town. this will be a diy-based initiative that is for "regular" people who are interested in cycling as a logical alternative to driving(or for recreation) and probably not your hard-core cycling fanatics(which the dsm bike collective is great for).

as for the bike sharing project, one of us has already spoken to someone with the city about implementing something like this and they seem interested. if not, we'll move forward on our own.

nick wrote:If live live music is going to be part of the vision of the collective, then this sounds exactly what I was thinking. Also interested!

music is definitely part of our plan--but our main focus so far has been to provide a space for artists/activists/people who have events and projects they want to do that don't have a fuckton of money to give to a venue like the social club. feel free to come to the meetings(pm me) and help with the music aspect if you like. obviously the more space requirements we need the more narrow the search for location becomes.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:40 pm**

joseph wrote:
Beaver wrote:I was not noodle dancing, and it was horrible free form jazz. I think Ive only stepped in that place once since then. Id rather go to Locust Tap.
youve really never seen yourself dance, have you?

AND WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING!?!

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:59 pm**

@nonymous wrote:
nick wrote:If live live music is going to be part of the vision of the collective, then this sounds exactly what I was thinking. Also interested!
music is definitely part of our plan--but our main focus so far has been to provide a space for artists/activists/people who have events and projects they want to do that don't have a fuckton of money to give to a venue like the social club. feel free to come to the meetings(pm me) and help with the music aspect if you like. obviously the more space requirements we need the more narrow the search for location becomes.

PM sent.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:26 pm**

@nonymous wrote:
tylerjames515 wrote:Indeed I am sir. That would be pretty awesome. I know the dsm bike collective has classes for repairing/fixing up your bike but I'm not sure how a lot of people feel about their prices. 4 classes - $80, or $25 per night & they only do them every so often.
one of us volunteers at the bike collective, so we'll certainly talk to them about this stuff. but they are reluctant to do any free work so as to not impede on the commercial interests of the for-profit bike shops in town. this will be a diy-based initiative that is for "regular" people who are interested in cycling as a logical alternative to driving(or for recreation) and probably not your hard-core cycling fanatics(which the dsm bike collective is great for).

as for the bike sharing project, one of us has already spoken to someone with the city about implementing something like this and they seem interested. if not, we'll move forward on our own.

nick wrote:If live live music is going to be part of the vision of the collective, then this sounds exactly what I was thinking. Also interested!
music is definitely part of our plan--but our main focus so far has been to provide a space for artists/activists/people who have events and projects they want to do that don't have a fuckton of money to give to a venue like the social club. feel free to come to the meetings(pm me) and help with the music aspect if you like. obviously the more space requirements we need the more narrow the search for location becomes.

Wasn't there already a bike thing going on? I think that new ice skating rink was handling it. I remember seeing bikes and hearing about how you could rent them if you gave out your ID. Wonder what happened with it.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:39 pm**

tylerjames515 wrote:Wasn't there already a bike thing going on? I think that new ice skating rink was handling it. I remember seeing bikes and hearing about how you could rent them if you gave out your ID. Wonder what happened with it.

i didn't hear about that.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:43 pm**

tylerjames515 wrote:Wasn't there already a bike thing going on? I think that new ice skating rink was handling it. I remember seeing bikes and hearing about how you could rent them if you gave out your ID. Wonder what happened with it.

There was definitely some sort of bike rental thing going on down at the ice skating rink downtown last summer. I remember walking down there and remembering that specifically, thinking it was pretty cool. Didn't see anyone working it the time I walked by though?

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:49 pm**

me and clint are starting an infoshop.

no joe's allowed.

but in all seriousness, me and clint could probably book house shows at this place a little bit out of town, but ummm, dsm sucks, so its basically just deciding if we want bands at a house party or not for us.

if any local dudes are interested, we could probably lazily get the ball rolling.

Posted: **Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:23 pm**

punks dont want to book at the mews cuz they take a percentage of the door.... but if punks want to start a diy space, they are going to need to pay the $600+ a month somehow...especially if its own en-titty(ha) and not somebodys house...ironically the only legit, and consistant source of income would be taking a percentage of the door..but somehow thats justifiable if your punk and its diy...idk, how do the places in IC funtion? are they peoples houses or just diy venues? i've always been down for helping, whether it be renovating and repairing a space, booking shows, promoting or whatever, i cant help much financially...not enough to commit to anything...also, although i know its not wanted, but buying a couple cases of beer/doritos/root beer... before a show, and selling em for 2 bucks a piece at the show, and not allowing any outside beverages would bring some bucks in as well...
@dam: where is this space? whats the status of it? what needs to be done? how much will it cost? how will it be sustainable without relying on people to fund it, because you simply cant reply on the small population of peeps into it to fund it...cuz most of us are broke...so i offered up my services, hit me up if you want to take advantage of them...i've got a truck and a trailer and tools...sooooooo yeah.
im hesitantly all about it...but it is spring and all...and people get all high on being unrealistically productive in the spring...but im down for helping none the less as long as it could potentially be sustainable...

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:13 am**

james-the space is yet to be determined. as i mentioned earlier, the requirements we'll need for the location will be shaped by what exactly we end up putting in there(what we're working on now). we have set a general fundraising goal at $1600(approx 2 months rent for going rates with adequate space)--this will give us a month to be in the space and get it set up and another to start using it. we've got benefits and donation tiers that people can pledge in the works.

like mentioned above(and like you mention), it's naive to think we can sustain this project without generating income. we have ideas for this and are moving forward with them. if you want to be involved in that process, pm me for meeting times.

as for your skills-we will most certainly need them and i'll get in touch as soon as we have a location chosen.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:38 am**

Beaver wrote:
joseph wrote:
Beaver wrote:I was not noodle dancing, and it was horrible free form jazz. I think Ive only stepped in that place once since then. Id rather go to Locust Tap.
youve really never seen yourself dance, have you?
AND WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING!?!

i love you.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:49 am**

James brings up a good point that money is pretty much a taboo issue in DIY circles, especially this one. I know everyone is aware of this fact, but the cities listed with viable DIY spaces are all substantially bigger than Des Moines - we're a metro area of 600,000 and all the cities listed are metros of well over 2,000,000 - that's roughly four times the size of Des Moines. It's unlikely that there's going to be the same volume of people to sustain a DIY venue like in these other cities. To make up for that volume whoever is running the show should charge a cover that actually reflects the cost of the venue and paying the bands without people throwing a fit over paying a few dollars extra here and there.... Charging $3 to 80% of the 20 people who walk through the door to see some touring band will not sustain a place. People just need to come to grips with the notion that an idea like this takes money to keep it going.

Just like it's worth it (to some of us) to pay a little extra to buy something from someone within our community, it's worth it to pay a little extra to support your own underground music community. The "I'm so broke and punk" shtick really isn't as impressive as someone willing to pay a fair price on the entertainment being offered.

I think James' idea of peddling food/beverages is a good idea. I see both sides of the alcohol debate - it does lead to problems and some people won't go to shows without beer, like it or not.

So anyway, I'm just saying there needs to be a realistic and mature approach to the issue of money and a DIY venue.

Also, low attendance is a factor. This city has a real circle-jerk of a scene. A lot of people were turned off by the Haunted Basement for whatever reasons (sanitary reasons, high levels of sexual frustration,etc) but the place would need to be comfortable to people - kept clean, ran in something of an orderly fashion, policed for shithead behavior, etc. I think there are a lot of people out there in Des Moines that are/would be interested in attending shows but it's just a matter of making them aware of shows, making them reasonably comfortable when/if they attend and maybe actually being friendly to them. Most of you guys really aren't that cool yourselves and shouldn't feel above introducing yourself to some dude in a Slipknot shirt who decides to check out a show or maybe inviting some of your non-scene friends (preferably women) to come check out a show.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:17 am**

El Rhino posted pretty much everything I wanted to say about attitudes. At first some of you come off as pretty hostile and it's off putting to those that don't know us. Just a little something to think about.

Now, another thing is having shows back to back to back. I feel like the shows would have better turn outs if maybe there weren't as many booked so often, or at least mixed bills. Seems like only hardcore bands play with hardcore bands, and so on. It'd be cool to mix it up.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:20 am**

i'm pretty about mixed bills.

playing with stand united is a legit dream of mine.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:31 am**

so lets put all this together.
800/a month...
which is alot, but at the same time not too much.

the first thing to figure out where the money would come from?
im assuming there will be items for sale such as zines/music/other merch for sale inside the place...which will generate something...lets say at best 50/month?

door money from shows/events-trivial?yes?but charging an extra dollar or 2 for what would typically be a 5dollar or 3dollar show shouldnt be a big deal to people who want a functioning joint, in a sense that would be their 'share'. but this is all dependent on how many events are schedualed for each week/month and the quality of those events...
oh, heres an idea...
how about letting people donate (for the sake of example) 25bucks a month, and for that, they get into shows for half the price or for 2 bucks? incentives would help...this could be a good source of income...if you can find 10 people to donate 25bucks and they get into shows cheap...thats 250 right there...not a bad start...like on npr, they send you a mug for your support, if you use something physical to offer people, the selfish bastards are going to feel like they are getting something for their 25bucks...

i am also for the beer/food/other drink idea...i think if it were regulated it would pull in some decent money...you could put limits on how much could be purchased (no more than 2 beers per person/per show)...but i as welll understand the alcohol debate.

this place is going to have to be marketed to a fairly broad range of people in order for it to work...which if you're involving art, music, and community, that is a good start...depending on you're limits...

i also think working with other groups such as the DM bike collective, finders creepers, and...i cant think of the name of this other group, but they help get community gardens going and a bunch of other community sponsered projects as well..i will get the name and post it...(growing and selling food at the farmers market would generate money, would be cheap as well)...and im sure there are a hundred other groups as well.

yeah, in order for people to want to support it, its going to need to be clean and inviting and open...and not smell like blue ballz....
i suppose i agree with everything el rhino said previously...and regulated for douchebaggery

people are going to have to opporate the joint for cheap and free...which will probably be a problem as it seems a lot of people go to school, have jobs, and have kids...but im sure a few people would step it up...

would this place be open all day everyday, or during the afternoons,
or just for events?

who wants to kick the ball next.

one more idea...the way erin bollman(finders creepers) has generated income, by having a quarterly event, with food, music, art and drinks...she makes some killer money and gets her name out there....all of her recent events have been featured in juice,city view, and even channel 13 news at noon...her RECENT events have functioned as fun raisers...if you book it and promote it...they will come.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:02 am**

zach krook wrote:
playing with stand united is a legit dream of mine.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:24 am**

I really like all the points El Rhino and TooManyHumyns have been saying in this thread.

I also think some sort of membership for the collective would be a good way to generate extra money and make people feel involved. Something like:

For a annual fee of $100 you can become a standard member. Membership entitles you to the ability to book shows and other events at the space, to staff the shows and events, to participate in the meetings, to check out items from the zine library, and to receive $1 off of shows at the space for your membership year. Members can also volunteer for administrative positions such as treasurer, calendar/website maintenance, gallery curator (assuming there is an art gallery), and head of maintenance if those positions become available.

Members would be encouraged, but not required, to attend the meetings held at the space where decisions and plans for the future will be made. You must also be a member for at least one month before you may start booking shows and events at the space and also must attend at least one meeting. This would be so the other members get to know the person. When you become a member you will get a packet with your membership card, along with information on what we are trying to do with the space, and the guidelines/rules (which would have to be set in stone) by which to run by.

Maybe there could be some tiered level of membership too? Standard and Administrative Membership?

There would also be a donation button via PayPal on the website where those wishing to help out monetarily, but not plege full membership, could utilize.

I do like the idea of selling zines and merch (vinyl/tapes/recipe books, etc.) as an small extra source of income.

As far as booking shows goes....it really can't function as a completely free space to book shows. I'd say something like this would be feasible: Only members of the collective can book shows. People other than members wishing to book a show at the space should contact a list of "bookers", which would be listed on the website. Bookers must pay a $50 fee for shows that occur Thurs.-Sun. (Weekdays). A $60 fee to book a show Fri.-Sat. (Weekends). The fee is to be paid either prior to, or the evening/day of, the show. Also, 1/4 of the door sales must go back to the collective. This goes to the cost of running the collective.

If the show ends up doing very well and the booker would like to give more, they may. Volunteers/Members are required to work the door, not the booker/promoter. The booker is responsible for the promoting and advertising of the show, not the collective. All shows would be all ages. Typical show times would start around 6pm/7pm and should be finished by no later than 10pm. There could be different times for daytime shows on the weekend or something (Sunday matinees). Limit of 3 shows per week total at the space. All shows must go be verified by the space "scheduler" to ensure that it does not conflict with another event.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:00 am**

I also think working with other community groups/venues and getting their support would be pretty crucial to the success of the space.

And yes...an clean and inviting environment that is excepting of EVERYONE is key. This would be a "community" space, so everyone who wants to be involved in some way can...no matter their race, age, sex, sexuality, political views, music preference, dress/attire, etc. There would have to be rules set in place to deal with douchebaggotry.

If some old lady in her 60's wants to host her crochet club there once a month, so be it. Or if the same lady wants to put on a "show" of her favorite touring barbershop quartet, so be it. Nobody should really be turned away (within reason).

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:08 am**

Nick wrote:I also think working with other community groups/venues and getting their support would be pretty crucial to the success of the space.

And yes...an clean and inviting environment that is excepting of EVERYONE is key. This would be a "community" space, so everyone who wants to be involved in some way can...no matter their race, age, sex, sexuality, political views, music preference, dress/attire, etc. There would have to be rules set in place to deal with douchebaggotry.

If some old lady in her 60's wants to host her crochet club there once a month, so be it. Or if the same lady wants to put on a "show" of her favorite touring barbershop quartet, so be it. Nobody should really be turned away (within reason).

Sounds like the Des Moines Social Club.

Posted: **Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:15 am**

Big Fat Retard wrote:
Nick wrote:I also think working with other community groups/venues and getting their support would be pretty crucial to the success of the space.

And yes...an clean and inviting environment that is excepting of EVERYONE is key. This would be a "community" space, so everyone who wants to be involved in some way can...no matter their race, age, sex, sexuality, political views, music preference, dress/attire, etc. There would have to be rules set in place to deal with douchebaggotry.

If some old lady in her 60's wants to host her crochet club there once a month, so be it. Or if the same lady wants to put on a "show" of her favorite touring barbershop quartet, so be it. Nobody should really be turned away (within reason).
Sounds like the Des Moines Social Club.

Members there can book shows/events and participate in the direction and/or admisinstrative fucntions or volunteer time at the DMSC? You can utilize the spaces available at the DMSC for less than $375 + 20% of the door fee? Hmmm...didn't know that.

There are similar elements, but a collective is much more DIY. The DMSC is fine for the purpose it serves (a gathering place for people to drink and watch wrestling and have some dance classes). It doesn't offer much to people in the community who don't have the money to be able to afford to utilize the space for events/shows they'd like to have in Des Moines.

515 Crew

Kick around ideas for a new DIY venue for Des Moines

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