515 Crew

I just wanna chime in and say I agree with Ed on everything in this thread so far. Dude get's it!

The only think I see some grey area on is Unions. I mean, they are great and totally serve their place in professions where everyone has similar type job duties/working conditions: machinists, plumbers, steel workers, construction, etc. My Dad has been a dues paying union member since before I was born and I know the majority of unions do the right thing.

BUT...as a employee for the State, I see WAY too many people here abuse their union "privileges." They file grievances for the stupidest little thing, turn to AFSCME every time they do something that any person in any other profession would get fired for so the union will save their ass and pretty much abuse the system and do as little of work as possible, because they knew that if they ever get threatened to be fired, the union will just get them their job back. AFSCME, for the most part, is a joke union if you ask me.

Nick wrote: BUT...as a employee for the State, I see WAY too many people here abuse their union "privileges." They file grievances for the stupidest little thing, turn to AFSCME every time they do something that any person in any other profession would get fired for so the union will save their ass and pretty much abuse the system and do as little of work as possible, because they knew that if they ever get threatened to be fired, the union will just get them their job back. AFSCME, for the most part, is a joke union if you ask me.

It happens everywhere. There's certainly people in my union who believe they're good union members but they're consistently pushing the boundaries of whatever they can get away with - be it attendance, drug/alcohol usage on and off the job, production, etc. Some of these people where I work are the first to criticize the union when they come back from contract negotiations and have to make concessions but in reality they just spent most of the time they could've been talking about wages, safety, benefits, etc. talking about shit like attendance.

One complaint I do have about unions is that sometimes they seem to go out of their boundaries. I understand supporting politicians and policies deemed beneficial to workers, but I just read the other day about high level members of my union on the East Coast acting with bullshit socialist/left-wing groups like One People's Project, ARA, The Mormon Worker and probably others to get the hotel hosting an American Renaissance (white nationalist) conference with Nick Griffin of the British National Party as the guest speaker to not host the conference. Due paying members are fighting to keep their jobs and hold on to everything they've earned over the years and we have people associating with half-cocked left wingers to shut down shit that has nothing to do with them on my dime? Fuck that.

Nick wrote:AFSCME, for the most part, is a joke union if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0

KY Jelly Belly wrote:

Nick wrote:AFSCME, for the most part, is a joke union if you ask me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3mw49mk_x0

Thank you, Kyle. It's been a long time since I've seen that and I had forgotten about it. Legitimate LOL.

ilikehorses wrote: "dont wanna?" it has nothing to do (or most often is not the case) with "dont wanna." when youre impoverished, something you obviously know nothing of, it often comes down to insurance vs rent or insurance vs food. often part-time jobs' insurance costs literally hundreds of dollars per month. full time jobs' often are not any better.

Yes, you know all about me, why keep beating that dead horse?

when i was in medical records, to get insurance, it would have cost me literally as much as i paid for rent every month. when i worked in retail, they didn't offer insurance for six months, not that i could have afforded it. (and i was just paying for myself, not a family!) many people never get out of situations like this. i deal with these people hundreds of times every single day. it's not their CHOICE to not have insurance, it comes to basic survival, the here and now. again, not that you've ever had to deal with that in your life.

Cry me a fucking river. It's really simple: I can't afford a 40 ft. yacht on my salary, so I don't have one- though it'd be nice, right? If you can't afford a family, THEN WEAR A FUCKING CONDOM. Why would I ever feel sorry for someone who's that irresponsible? Maybe before taking your pants off you should weigh the cost of a 12 pack of Trojans vs. a kid or five and see if that's what you really want- or more importantly, if you can afford it. Don't have $4? Go to planned parenthood, they give them out for free. The average person in this country is like what $30k in debt? Call me skeptical, but I don't think all that debt came from medical bills. (and yeah I realize lower income families probably don't have that much debt- this was more of a side-rant.) And this socialized healthcare is just going to put us even further into debt.

and that's a problem: the people so scared and opposed to healthcare for all citizens have never dealt with not having health insurance, or more specifically, getting ill without health insurance. everyone can laugh and say "just go to broadlawns," but in reality, without insurance, most primary care physicians will not see you. so your baby will not get well-baby checks, you can't get annual check ups, you can be seen for your cough. so what's the solution? go to the ER, where they have to see you. so our ERs (which the visit costs 5 times as much), are clogged full of people who should be seeing their PCP. if they had insurance, government insurance that PCPs could easily and would take, the cost of their health care would drop significantly due to fewer ER visits.
***********************************
(edit: on cost of ER visits, i looked it up a little. the average cost is about $1500, depending on what tests are done, ie. blood tests, xrays, ct, etc. i know that an urgent care clinic's minimum is $80, if no tests are performed. each test averages about $50. many urgent care clinics will not take the current government medicaid / title IX. when a person on meidcaid / title IX has to go to the ER to get a basic check up, this is how much money is wasted.)

Bullshit. I don't have insurance right now and I'm against it. What say you to that? And you're wrong to think Emergency Rooms are clogged NOW vs. what it would be like with socialized healthcare. I'm unfortunate enough to have lived in Massachusetts and their socialized healthcare system. You wanna talk about impossible to see a PCP or people clogging ERs? It was fucking INSANE. Let me share with you a couple of the instances of me trying to see my PCP (this is while I was insured mind you) and a few ER visits there vs. Iowa vs. California.
To see a dermatologist in MA: I had to call to make an appointment with my PCP FIRST (they dont let you just see a dermatologist- you have to be referred) Made the call in October- saw my PCP in early December, referred to a Dermatologist, called them, made an appointment for FEBRUARY. FOUR months, just to see a dermatologist. This wasn't an isolated incident, I had to see an endocrinologist and experienced the same thing.

In Iowa- call the clinic, they give you the derm. dept. # you make an appointment, you're in by next week. Could it be any easier?

Emergency Room visits in MA- I had to go twice, both times I waited between 6-8 hours in the ER before seeing anyone (yep, I was insured- waited just as long as those who were there and weren't insured) both times I was on the verge of passing out and couldn't walk. I ended up having to get a spinal tap during that second visit- not by a practicing doctor or someone who had actually given one before. That's right I was the virgin spinal tap for some fucking student, who MISSED on the first try and had to have it finished by someone else--- even after I refused to be a part of it in the first place.

I've only been to the ER in Iowa once, but I only waited about 25 minutes.

And most recently in Huntington Beach I had to go to an Urgent Care to have an abscess from a spider bite drained. Only had to wait about 15 minutes, place wasn't crowded, and it only cost $30- not $80 like you claim. And (supposedly) they did send in a blood sample to make sure it wasn't a brown recluse or anything.

Bottom line is, MA was a nightmare in every sense and the healthcare was the lowest quality I've ever received. -And that's what you want for the entire country. America has the best healthcare system in the world, yet you want to "fix" it. Look at all the nightmares you hear about from other countries like Canada and England where they already have similar systems in place. People waiting 9 months for MRI's and going to the vet to get it done instead just because it's faster. So on and so forth.

and so, no, you don't have a real job? ok.

I make more money an hour than you do, so how is that not a real job? And what would that make your job?

Varg wrote:

ilikehorses wrote: "dont wanna?" it has nothing to do (or most often is not the case) with "dont wanna." when youre impoverished, something you obviously know nothing of, it often comes down to insurance vs rent or insurance vs food. often part-time jobs' insurance costs literally hundreds of dollars per month. full time jobs' often are not any better.

Yes, you know all about me, why keep beating that dead horse?

when i was in medical records, to get insurance, it would have cost me literally as much as i paid for rent every month. when i worked in retail, they didn't offer insurance for six months, not that i could have afforded it. (and i was just paying for myself, not a family!) many people never get out of situations like this. i deal with these people hundreds of times every single day. it's not their CHOICE to not have insurance, it comes to basic survival, the here and now. again, not that you've ever had to deal with that in your life.

Cry me a fucking river. It's really simple: I can't afford a 40 ft. yacht on my salary, so I don't have one- though it'd be nice, right? If you can't afford a family, THEN WEAR A FUCKING CONDOM. Why would I ever feel sorry for someone who's that irresponsible? Maybe before taking your pants off you should weigh the cost of a 12 pack of Trojans vs. a kid or five and see if that's what you really want- or more importantly, if you can afford it. Don't have $4? Go to planned parenthood, they give them out for free. The average person in this country is like what $30k in debt? Call me skeptical, but I don't think all that debt came from medical bills. (and yeah I realize lower income families probably don't have that much debt- this was more of a side-rant.) And this socialized healthcare is just going to put us even further into debt.

and that's a problem: the people so scared and opposed to healthcare for all citizens have never dealt with not having health insurance, or more specifically, getting ill without health insurance. everyone can laugh and say "just go to broadlawns," but in reality, without insurance, most primary care physicians will not see you. so your baby will not get well-baby checks, you can't get annual check ups, you can be seen for your cough. so what's the solution? go to the ER, where they have to see you. so our ERs (which the visit costs 5 times as much), are clogged full of people who should be seeing their PCP. if they had insurance, government insurance that PCPs could easily and would take, the cost of their health care would drop significantly due to fewer ER visits.
***********************************
(edit: on cost of ER visits, i looked it up a little. the average cost is about $1500, depending on what tests are done, ie. blood tests, xrays, ct, etc. i know that an urgent care clinic's minimum is $80, if no tests are performed. each test averages about $50. many urgent care clinics will not take the current government medicaid / title IX. when a person on meidcaid / title IX has to go to the ER to get a basic check up, this is how much money is wasted.)

Bullshit. I don't have insurance right now and I'm against it. What say you to that? And you're wrong to think Emergency Rooms are clogged NOW vs. what it would be like with socialized healthcare. I'm unfortunate enough to have lived in Massachusetts and their socialized healthcare system. You wanna talk about impossible to see a PCP or people clogging ERs? It was fucking INSANE. Let me share with you a couple of the instances of me trying to see my PCP (this is while I was insured mind you) and a few ER visits there vs. Iowa vs. California.
To see a dermatologist in MA: I had to call to make an appointment with my PCP FIRST (they dont let you just see a dermatologist- you have to be referred) Made the call in October- saw my PCP in early December, referred to a Dermatologist, called them, made an appointment for FEBRUARY. FOUR months, just to see a dermatologist. This wasn't an isolated incident, I had to see an endocrinologist and experienced the same thing.

In Iowa- call the clinic, they give you the derm. dept. # you make an appointment, you're in by next week. Could it be any easier?

Emergency Room visits in MA- I had to go twice, both times I waited between 6-8 hours in the ER before seeing anyone (yep, I was insured- waited just as long as those who were there and weren't insured) both times I was on the verge of passing out and couldn't walk. I ended up having to get a spinal tap during that second visit- not by a practicing doctor or someone who had actually given one before. That's right I was the virgin spinal tap for some fucking student, who MISSED on the first try and had to have it finished by someone else--- even after I refused to be a part of it in the first place.

I've only been to the ER in Iowa once, but I only waited about 25 minutes.

And most recently in Huntington Beach I had to go to an Urgent Care to have an abscess from a spider bite drained. Only had to wait about 15 minutes, place wasn't crowded, and it only cost $30- not $80 like you claim. And (supposedly) they did send in a blood sample to make sure it wasn't a brown recluse or anything.

Bottom line is, MA was a nightmare in every sense and the healthcare was the lowest quality I've ever received. -And that's what you want for the entire country. America has the best healthcare system in the world, yet you want to "fix" it. Look at all the nightmares you hear about from other countries like Canada and England where they already have similar systems in place. People waiting 9 months for MRI's and going to the vet to get it done instead just because it's faster. So on and so forth.

and so, no, you don't have a real job? ok.

I make more money an hour than you do, so how is that not a real job? And what would that make your job?

Did you just fart?

Nick wrote: BUT...as a employee for the State, I see WAY too many people here abuse their union "privileges." They file grievances for the stupidest little thing, turn to AFSCME every time they do something that any person in any other profession would get fired for so the union will save their ass and pretty much abuse the system and do as little of work as possible, because they knew that if they ever get threatened to be fired, the union will just get them their job back. AFSCME, for the most part, is a joke union if you ask me.

You know what Nick, if that employee still has his job then he has followed the contract between himself and the company. No one where you work is doing "as little work as possible", they're doing the amount of work they need to do to fulfill the contract between themselves and the company because guess what that's all they have to do and I can promise you that's all the company(in this case the state) is going to do. They aren't going to do anything beyond what their binded to do in that contract so tell me exactly why the workers should have to?

How is AFSCME a joke of a union if they're doing their job? I know a lot of AFSCME people, since my wife is an organizer nationally for them and has worked in this state quite a bit. I can tell you right now that 99.9% of them care more about protecting your job than you do. They work ridiculously hard and a lot of hours (Tabbitha is on her 14th, ten hour day in a row trying to help strengthen YOUR union). Shit I personally have put in 12-14 hour days in the past, for free, not because I'm "union" but because I know leaders and workers in your union and I've seen how dedicated they are to members like you who turn around and bash them publicly.

If it had been Varg that posted something like that I would have let it slide but I'm a little disappointed Nick.

Cool story, varg. But your generalizations and stereotypes are fucking absurd.

Anyway...I was at the Target Pharmacy last night with my girlfriend so she could get her prescription for her migraine medication refilled. The lady ahead of us in line was in really lousy shape. She was coughing up a storm (deep, raw chest coughs) and said she had just gotten out from seeing her doctor and was prescribed 3 medications. I can only assume she had Bronchitis and/or some other nasty upper respitory viral infection. Anyway, she looked (pale and sweaty with dark circles under her eyes) and sounded like death, like she was on the verge of developing full blown pneumonia.

She handed the pharmacist her insurance cards and the lady ran them. She said her insurnace covered the medication(s) and then gave her the total for all 3 and asked how she'd like to pay. The total came up to $219 or some shit. $219 for 3 medications which were (in some way) partially covered by her insurance?!!! My girlfriend and I both looked at eachother in disbelief. This poor lady (who I assume was in her mid-20's) said there was no way she could afford all 3 and asked the pharmacist which ones she might be able to do without.

My point is, this is just once instance of thousands and thousands of cases just like this in probably every State in the U.S. on a daily basis. It fucking ridiculous that "insured" people have to choose which medication they might be able to do without in the U.S. I'm sure this same lady's insurance covered her doctor's visit too, but I'd hate to imagine what that bill will be like. Face it, the richest country in the World also has some of the best quality healthcare in the World. The only thing is, unless you have amazing insurance or a able to afford out of pocket (you are rich), you can't even afford to get the awesome healthcare this country provides. It's fucking insane and something needs to be done about it. Giving more and more "power" to the insurance companies isn't going to resolve the issue or make it better, as they really don't give a shit about anything except flipping record profits.

ginx86 wrote:

Nick wrote: BUT...as a employee for the State, I see WAY too many people here abuse their union "privileges." They file grievances for the stupidest little thing, turn to AFSCME every time they do something that any person in any other profession would get fired for so the union will save their ass and pretty much abuse the system and do as little of work as possible, because they knew that if they ever get threatened to be fired, the union will just get them their job back. AFSCME, for the most part, is a joke union if you ask me.

You know what Nick, if that employee still has his job then he has followed the contract between himself and the company. No one where you work is doing "as little work as possible", they're doing the amount of work they need to do to fulfill the contract between themselves and the company because guess what that's all they have to do and I can promise you that's all the company(in this case the state) is going to do. They aren't going to do anything beyond what their binded to do in that contract so tell me exactly why the workers should have to?

How is AFSCME a joke of a union if they're doing their job? I know a lot of AFSCME people, since my wife is an organizer nationally for them and has worked in this state quite a bit. I can tell you right now that 99.9% of them care more about protecting your job than you do. They work ridiculously hard and a lot of hours (Tabbitha is on her 14th, ten hour day in a row trying to help strengthen YOUR union). Shit I personally have put in 12-14 hour days in the past, for free, not because I'm "union" but because I know leaders and workers in your union and I've seen how dedicated they are to members like you who turn around and bash them publicly.

If it had been Varg that posted something like that I would have let it slide but I'm a little disappointed Nick.

I agree that I was making broad generalizations aobut AFSCME (that was wrong of me to group the whole union into the bad category), but, this is just because of some of the stuff I have seen here at the DOT first hand.

For instance....there were some janitors here a few years back who were on the night crew. No other employees were around, so on their shift they were leaving work and going up to the Tip-Top (bar here in Ames) and getting drunk on the job. They got caught and were obviously fired. Those 3 employees turned to AFSCME and said it wasn't right they were fired and AFSCME got them their jobs back and even got them back pay for the time they were laid off until they got their jobs back. How fucked up is that? That isn't what a Union is for. It's for workers rights. Getting your job back after you fucked up royally is not a "right."

Another more recent thing that turned me sorta sour on AFSCME is the recent furloughs (required unpaid days off). As every who knows anything about the State budget knows, it's pretty much fucked right now. To try and alleviate some of the budget problems, State leaders said they'd have to pass a bill that would cause 1,000+ State workers to lose their jobs. They said that this bill would go through UNLESS furloughs were accepted as an alternative. Non-contract and At-Will employees didn't have a choice in the matter. I am a Non-Contract employee and I had no vote on it. I have to take 7 unpaid furlough days by June 31st, 2010. And you know what...I didn't complain about it one bit, as I knew that meant at least a few people would get to keep their jobs.

Now on the flipside, contract covered employees (the majority of State workers (20,000+ employees)) were given the choice to vote on whether or not they'd have to take 5 unpaid furlough days. If they did, then roughly 900 State employees would get to keep their job. AFSCME President, Danny Homan, was all over TV and in the news media telling everyone he'd do, "whatever it takes to make sure our fellow brothers and sisters get to keep their jobs, even if that means renegotiationg the contract." Sounds good to me, the Union president is doing the right thing and looking out for his fellow union worker.

Fast forward a few weeks to when the contract was reopened for negotiations and it was time for the union memebers to vote on whether or not to take the 5 unpaid furlough days. Danny Homan was the first person to say they shouldn't have to sacrafice what was written in their contract and that maybe the State should look at other options to remedy the budget issues and save these jobs, "even if that means raising taxes."

So wait a minute. The same guy who claims he'd do anything to save jobs is now saying he doesn't think his other union members (whose jobs are safe) should have to take furloughs (which equalled about 4% of annual salary) to save the jobs of 900+ of his "fellow brothers and sisters?" Instead...ALL Iowas should take the hit and save these State workers their jobs by raising taxes? That seems a little selfish and not really looking out for his workers best interests.

Anyway...that was all moot now, as the union members voted in favor of furloughs, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Like I said, I know for the most part (90% of the time or more) AFSCME really is doing the right thing...but they really seem to fuck up bad when they fuck up. Like I'm sure a lot of unions do from time to time. I didn't mean to reallly single them out and I think they do a great job overall.

Not going to quote anything but when it comes to what Danny says, I'll be honest that guy loves to talk tough and really that's what he is supposed to do. If he just gives the state what they want and doesn't do a little tough talking they'll think he's a pushover and everytime cuts need to be made they'll come out of your end instead of the state taking the time to see if other things than your pay and benefits can be cut.

ginx86 wrote:Not going to quote anything but when it comes to what Danny says, I'll be honest that guy loves to talk tough and really that's what he is supposed to do. If he just gives the state what they want and doesn't do a little tough talking they'll think he's a pushover and everytime cuts need to be made they'll come out of your end instead of the state taking the time to see if other things than your pay and benefits can be cut.

Danny Homan is a fuckin' pussy and you can take that to the bank!

Nick wrote:Cool story, varg. But your generalizations and stereotypes are fucking absurd.

Anyway...I was at the Target Pharmacy last night with my girlfriend so she could get her prescription for her migraine medication refilled. The lady ahead of us in line was in really lousy shape. She was coughing up a storm (deep, raw chest coughs) and said she had just gotten out from seeing her doctor and was prescribed 3 medications. I can only assume she had Bronchitis and/or some other nasty upper respitory viral infection. Anyway, she looked (pale and sweaty with dark circles under her eyes) and sounded like death, like she was on the verge of developing full blown pneumonia.

She handed the pharmacist her insurance cards and the lady ran them. She said her insurnace covered the medication(s) and then gave her the total for all 3 and asked how she'd like to pay. The total came up to $219 or some shit. $219 for 3 medications which were (in some way) partially covered by her insurance?!!! My girlfriend and I both looked at eachother in disbelief. This poor lady (who I assume was in her mid-20's) said there was no way she could afford all 3 and asked the pharmacist which ones she might be able to do without.

My point is, this is just once instance of thousands and thousands of cases just like this in probably every State in the U.S. on a daily basis. It fucking ridiculous that "insured" people have to choose which medication they might be able to do without in the U.S. I'm sure this same lady's insurance covered her doctor's visit too, but I'd hate to imagine what that bill will be like. Face it, the richest country in the World also has some of the best quality healthcare in the World. The only thing is, unless you have amazing insurance or a able to afford out of pocket (you are rich), you can't even afford to get the awesome healthcare this country provides. It's fucking insane and something needs to be done about it. Giving more and more "power" to the insurance companies isn't going to resolve the issue or make it better, as they really don't give a shit about anything except flipping record profits.

That's a problem with the Pharm companies and their artificially inflated prices.

Big Fat Retard wrote: Danny Homan is a fuckin' pussy and you can take that to the bank!

Which bank because Danny would be a pretty large deposit?

you all need to have a debate club or something. too many words about the same dang arguement. again.

The way I see it unions take money from working people and use it to bribe politicians who in turn raise taxes on working people. Sorry, but I don't need a union goon to negotiate my terms of employment with any employer. Unions may have been needed back in the day, but now they are just bloated pieces of shit that are no better than the two crooked political parties we have running our government.

Big Fat Retard wrote:The way I see it unions take money from working people and use it to bribe politicians who in turn raise taxes on working people. Sorry, but I don't need a union goon to negotiate my terms of employment with any employer. Unions may have been needed back in the day, but now they are just bloated pieces of shit that are no better than the two crooked political parties we have running our government.

short, concise and to the point. thanks i can read that.

Big Fat Retard wrote:The way I see it unions take money from working people and use it to bribe politicians who in turn raise taxes on working people. Sorry, but I don't need a union goon to negotiate my terms of employment with any employer. Unions may have been needed back in the day, but now they are just bloated pieces of shit that are no better than the two crooked political parties we have running our government.

Yes, the union takes 3% of my wage and in turn negotiates a decent benefits package, a wage that puts me above "just getting by", safety issues, working conditions and job protections. Yeah, what a shitty deal.

Varg wrote:lol, dumbest shit I've ever heard. There is absolutely no logic to that whatsoever- and joseph made it pretty clear and concise. Carter was one of the WORST presidents we've ever had. And do you not remember the recession caused by him?

I just went back and read this thread and this comment jumped out at me.

Varg...you really are a fucking idiot, aren't you? What is the point you are trying to make here? Are you really trying to compare the recession under the Carter Administration to the current recession caused during the last (Bush) presidency and exacerbated way worse by the current (Obama) president?

Not only is the current recession worse than the past 11 recessions we've faced, it is also shaping up to be the longest (currently at 25 months) and it doesn't look like it is going to correct itself any time soon.

Maybe you need a graphic to wrap your tiny little brain around the idea that we are currently in the worst recession since the Great Depression. The economy is in shambles and it isn't gonna fix itself. Not only are the unemployment numbers at almost record highs, the inflation rate is through the roof (the value of the dollar has completely tanked) and the healthcare system in the is country is at an all time low.

Maybe you should keep your mouth shut when talking about current economic and social issues instead of just regurgitating the bullshit that Glenn Beck is feeding to you.

If not by raising taxes, what is your solution to getting us out of this clusterfuck we are in now? Do away with all social programs (Poor people need to learn to be responsible and take care of themselves. Fuck 'em, right)? Cease all current military campaigns (even if that means other countries will be 10 times worse than they are now. Fuck 'em, right?) Give the insurance companies more control over the healthcare industry so we have to pay more out of pocket for any sort of decent healthcare (healthcare is a privilege, not a right. If you can't afford insurance, the government shouldn't provide if for you. Only the stong survive. Fuck 'em, right?) What exactly do you propose, Varg?

El Rhino wrote:

Big Fat Retard wrote:The way I see it unions take money from working people and use it to bribe politicians who in turn raise taxes on working people. Sorry, but I don't need a union goon to negotiate my terms of employment with any employer. Unions may have been needed back in the day, but now they are just bloated pieces of shit that are no better than the two crooked political parties we have running our government.

Yes, the union takes 3% of my wage and in turn negotiates a decent benefits package, a wage that puts me above "just getting by", safety issues, working conditions and job protections. Yeah, what a shitty deal.

They take your money and give it to Democommies. I have never needed a union to negotiate decent benefits or wages for me.

Big Fat Retard wrote:

Nick wrote:Cool story, varg. But your generalizations and stereotypes are fucking absurd.

Anyway...I was at the Target Pharmacy last night with my girlfriend so she could get her prescription for her migraine medication refilled. The lady ahead of us in line was in really lousy shape. She was coughing up a storm (deep, raw chest coughs) and said she had just gotten out from seeing her doctor and was prescribed 3 medications. I can only assume she had Bronchitis and/or some other nasty upper respitory viral infection. Anyway, she looked (pale and sweaty with dark circles under her eyes) and sounded like death, like she was on the verge of developing full blown pneumonia.

She handed the pharmacist her insurance cards and the lady ran them. She said her insurnace covered the medication(s) and then gave her the total for all 3 and asked how she'd like to pay. The total came up to $219 or some shit. $219 for 3 medications which were (in some way) partially covered by her insurance?!!! My girlfriend and I both looked at eachother in disbelief. This poor lady (who I assume was in her mid-20's) said there was no way she could afford all 3 and asked the pharmacist which ones she might be able to do without.

My point is, this is just once instance of thousands and thousands of cases just like this in probably every State in the U.S. on a daily basis. It fucking ridiculous that "insured" people have to choose which medication they might be able to do without in the U.S. I'm sure this same lady's insurance covered her doctor's visit too, but I'd hate to imagine what that bill will be like. Face it, the richest country in the World also has some of the best quality healthcare in the World. The only thing is, unless you have amazing insurance or a able to afford out of pocket (you are rich), you can't even afford to get the awesome healthcare this country provides. It's fucking insane and something needs to be done about it. Giving more and more "power" to the insurance companies isn't going to resolve the issue or make it better, as they really don't give a shit about anything except flipping record profits.

That's a problem with the Pharm companies and their artificially inflated prices.

i agree. the issues varg has put forward are real and im worried about them as well. yes the costs are out of control but cost reform needs to happen, not universal care.

Big Fat Retard wrote: They take your money and give it to Democommies. I have never needed a union to negotiate decent benefits or wages for me.

But a lot of people aren't in the position where they can easily go in and negotiate their own benefits and wages with their places of employment. That's where unions come in. Most unions are still good, but there are some shitty ones that veer too far into politics, like you pointed out.

Big Fat Retard wrote:

El Rhino wrote:

Big Fat Retard wrote:The way I see it unions take money from working people and use it to bribe politicians who in turn raise taxes on working people. Sorry, but I don't need a union goon to negotiate my terms of employment with any employer. Unions may have been needed back in the day, but now they are just bloated pieces of shit that are no better than the two crooked political parties we have running our government.

Yes, the union takes 3% of my wage and in turn negotiates a decent benefits package, a wage that puts me above "just getting by", safety issues, working conditions and job protections. Yeah, what a shitty deal.

They take your money and give it to Democommies. I have never needed a union to negotiate decent benefits or wages for me.

what is your job?

Bullet Tooth wrote:i agree. the issues varg has put forward are real and im worried about them as well. yes the costs are out of control but cost reform needs to happen, not universal care.

I agree and I am not a proponent for full on universal healthcare. There does need to be some major reform, but there also needs to be some more government assistance offered for people who won't be able to afford what reform would offer. It's a tough balance. I'd hate to be in politics right now.

ive lived in 2 states with my family. new jersey and iowa. in both places when i lost a job or was getting paid very little while going to school, i was able to get government assisted health care cause i couldnt afford it on my own. i was able to go to pretty much any doctor and pay nothing. i know this is the case currently in iowa. iowa has it pretty good as far as govt assistance. theres very few checks on it.

Big Fat Retard wrote:

El Rhino wrote:

Big Fat Retard wrote:The way I see it unions take money from working people and use it to bribe politicians who in turn raise taxes on working people. Sorry, but I don't need a union goon to negotiate my terms of employment with any employer. Unions may have been needed back in the day, but now they are just bloated pieces of shit that are no better than the two crooked political parties we have running our government.

Yes, the union takes 3% of my wage and in turn negotiates a decent benefits package, a wage that puts me above "just getting by", safety issues, working conditions and job protections. Yeah, what a shitty deal.

They take your money and give it to Democommies. I have never needed a union to negotiate decent benefits or wages for me.

everytime i read or hear this, it makes me think the person is actually retarded. stop.

Bullet Tooth wrote: what is your job?

I work for myself.

Big Fat Retard wrote:

Bullet Tooth wrote: what is your job?

I work for myself.

you answer like a woman. whats your fucking job?

Varg wrote:
Cry me a fucking river. It's really simple: I can't afford a 40 ft. yacht on my salary, so I don't have one- though it'd be nice, right? If you can't afford a family, THEN WEAR A FUCKING CONDOM. Why would I ever feel sorry for someone who's that irresponsible? Maybe before taking your pants off you should weigh the cost of a 12 pack of Trojans vs. a kid or five and see if that's what you really want- or more importantly, if you can afford it. Don't have $4? Go to planned parenthood, they give them out for free. The average person in this country is like what $30k in debt? Call me skeptical, but I don't think all that debt came from medical bills. (and yeah I realize lower income families probably don't have that much debt- this was more of a side-rant.) And this socialized healthcare is just going to put us even further into debt.

having a 40ft yacht is a far stretch from having a car or clothes or a phone. yes, some people live far out of their means. but you can't punish them for it when they get run over or get cancer or have a serious illness. yes, they shouldn't get to have free cosmetic surgery, but providing basic health care is (or should be) a right of every person.
beyond that, having kids: you cannot punish kids for having stupid parents. that's a theme around my workplace. just because the parents are idiots, does that mean that their kids shouldn't be seen by a PCP for their cough? or to be seen and treated for sickle cell, pneumonia, sepsis, etc.?? no, of course, IT'S ABOUT RESPONSIBILITY.
denying children healthcare leads to unhealthy lives, unhealthy adults, a larger drain on the healthcare system. denying universal healthcare (or some sort of program) will leave millions of children to suffer and die. but again, RESPONSIBILITY, RIGHT? it's punishment for having stupid (or more likely, POOR) parents.

Bullshit. I don't have insurance right now and I'm against it. What say you to that? And you're wrong to think Emergency Rooms are clogged NOW vs. what it would be like with socialized healthcare. I'm unfortunate enough to have lived in Massachusetts and their socialized healthcare system. You wanna talk about impossible to see a PCP or people clogging ERs? It was fucking INSANE. Let me share with you a couple of the instances of me trying to see my PCP (this is while I was insured mind you) and a few ER visits there vs. Iowa vs. California.
To see a dermatologist in MA: I had to call to make an appointment with my PCP FIRST (they dont let you just see a dermatologist- you have to be referred) Made the call in October- saw my PCP in early December, referred to a Dermatologist, called them, made an appointment for FEBRUARY. FOUR months, just to see a dermatologist. This wasn't an isolated incident, I had to see an endocrinologist and experienced the same thing.

In Iowa- call the clinic, they give you the derm. dept. # you make an appointment, you're in by next week. Could it be any easier?

Emergency Room visits in MA- I had to go twice, both times I waited between 6-8 hours in the ER before seeing anyone (yep, I was insured- waited just as long as those who were there and weren't insured) both times I was on the verge of passing out and couldn't walk. I ended up having to get a spinal tap during that second visit- not by a practicing doctor or someone who had actually given one before. That's right I was the virgin spinal tap for some fucking student, who MISSED on the first try and had to have it finished by someone else--- even after I refused to be a part of it in the first place.

I've only been to the ER in Iowa once, but I only waited about 25 minutes.

And most recently in Huntington Beach I had to go to an Urgent Care to have an abscess from a spider bite drained. Only had to wait about 15 minutes, place wasn't crowded, and it only cost $30- not $80 like you claim. And (supposedly) they did send in a blood sample to make sure it wasn't a brown recluse or anything.

Bottom line is, MA was a nightmare in every sense and the healthcare was the lowest quality I've ever received. -And that's what you want for the entire country. America has the best healthcare system in the world, yet you want to "fix" it. Look at all the nightmares you hear about from other countries like Canada and England where they already have similar systems in place. People waiting 9 months for MRI's and going to the vet to get it done instead just because it's faster. So on and so forth.

sorry you had to wait 4 months to get your steroid-induced acne looked at. but yes, that's how it should be. people making their own appointments to dermatologists and other specialties means that those specialties are filled with people with contact dermatitis and bed bugs, things that can be treated at home or with a PCP. yes, you should have to see your PCP first, so they can rule out you being an idiot. and really, from working at clinics and now the hospital, i know that you can make your own appointment with a specialists, but you will still wait those four months, unless it's an emergency, which acne is not.

i know you think that the ER here is a quick in-and-out, but i know better than you the truth that here, you wait the same as anywhere else. the only reason the wait here is shorter would be due to volume and severity. dsm vs boston, we have a much smaller amount of patients and they are generally less severe, due to a safer, smaller community. but still, i've seen people wait in the ER waiting room for eight hours. it's not uncommon, in fact, it's pretty fucking common. i've seen people with very serious (tier 2) problems wait in the waiting room due to lack of beds. it happens. it has nothing to do with universal health care.
side note: i worked at an urgent care clinic for three years. if they only charged you $30 for a visit and labs, they were either being nice or it was covered by a government program. because i know that a culture such as that is at least $125. we had the costs posted all over our work area.

I make more money an hour than you do, so how is that not a real job? And what would that make your job?

i perform cpr on infants, i perform life-saving measures on a daily basis, i have to deal with sick and physically emergent patients. you play guitar. what would that make YOUR job?


beyond this, you talk about responsibility of the lower classes, but what about the responsibility of the corporations and hospitals to make healthcare affordable?! my dad was in the hospital for a week and a half, his bill -he showed it to me- was $111,000. luckily, we was union and it was paid for. but i have at least two friends that i know of who are going through bankruptcy procedures due to medical bills they can't pay.. and they had insurance and don't own a single yacht (again, that i know of. i mean, yachts are pretty common place in the midwest...). i have a friend from brazil (who is a US citizen, just so you know), who was almost denied life-saving brain surgery due to lack of insurance. they ONLY reason he got the surgery is because the doctors took pity on him and agreed to do the surgery and he can just pay them off as much as he can month to month. ever wonder how long it will take a man to pay off a $200,000 brain surgery, not including the cost of hospital stay, etc.? a long fucking time.

just saying, i dont know of any state that denies health care to children.

ilikehorses wrote:sorry you had to wait 4 months to get your steroid-induced acne looked at.

I'm dying over here.