515 Crew

The thing that always confused me about the holocaust didn't happen belief is don't most of these big thinkers wish to kill all the Jews and other "races"? Seems that the holocaust would be a good thing to them.

Not always. Again, I don't think that most of you understand holocaust denial/holocaust revisionism. While most people who would like to kill all the j00z probably do not accept the holocaust as it is presented, not every holocaust denier/revisionist wants to kill all the Jews. It's not just rednecks screaming about the ZOG that are into this, there are plenty of people with serious academic credentials involved in this. David Irving is one of the more prominent ones. He's an old historian who was sentenced to prison in Austria a couple of years ago for publishing materials that denied the holocaust.

Anyways, If you look at the evidence presented and decide that the holocaust did not happen the way it is portrayed by the mainstream AND you wish to kill all the Jews just because you want to see the Jews dead does not mean that you now believe it happened.

On the subject of removing the kids from the home, it's really questionable if a hate filled racist home is a healthy environment for a child.... Are the parents militant racists?

It is not an abusive environment (that we know of) and not an environment that is illegal to raise a child in.

it is my opinion that none of you have penises.
none of you.

If the government can take away your kids because you're an inbred, mongoloid, dumbfuck, why are any of the kids with Fred Phelps' klan still with their families?

El Rhino wrote:

The thing that always confused me about the holocaust didn't happen belief is don't most of these big thinkers wish to kill all the Jews and other "races"? Seems that the holocaust would be a good thing to them.

Not always. Again, I don't think that most of you understand holocaust denial/holocaust revisionism. While most people who would like to kill all the j00z probably do not accept the holocaust as it is presented, not every holocaust denier/revisionist wants to kill all the Jews. It's not just rednecks screaming about the ZOG that are into this, there are plenty of people with serious academic credentials involved in this. David Irving is one of the more prominent ones. He's an old historian who was sentenced to prison in Austria a couple of years ago for publishing materials that denied the holocaust.

Anyways, If you look at the evidence presented and decide that the holocaust did not happen the way it is portrayed by the mainstream AND you wish to kill all the Jews just because you want to see the Jews dead does not mean that you now believe it happened.

On the subject of removing the kids from the home, it's really questionable if a hate filled racist home is a healthy environment for a child.... Are the parents militant racists?

It is not an abusive environment (that we know of) and not an environment that is illegal to raise a child in.

I think that the holocaust portrayal in the mainstream is pretty straight forward. The evidence is not clouded in mystery. In fact the Nazis were really good at documenting their acts. The fact that David Irving is in fact a Racist and an antisemitism discredits him. He is not doing his "research" with an open mind. In fact he is seeking "proof" that proves his beliefs much in the same way, a Christian archeologists tries to prove the bible as fact.

On the subject of the children it comes down to what the court finds as abusive. If the court can prove that the parents beliefs are mentally abusive then it would set a president that hate based teachings are abusive. There is a gray zone idea that the anti-social behavior and beliefs of the parents is a case of neglect. Living in an environment of hate and fear could be a very scary and menially abusive place for a child to grow up in. Especially if the parents are militant separatist.

The fact is that children can be removed from a home because of the beliefs of the parents if they are harmful to the child's well being. For example, if the parents don't believe in education or health care. If they have neglected the child's education or health then they should be removed.

I think that the holocaust portrayal in the mainstream is pretty straight forward.

Some people don't and a lot of research goes into those sort of things. I'm not a "holocaust denier" myself, but I think some of the things considered fact about WWII sound a little shaky and the fact that it's illegal in many European countries to reexamine the history of the holocaust raises suspicion with me. I don't deny or doubt that attrocities were committed all around and certain groups were targeted more than others.

The fact that David Irving is in fact a Racist and an antisemitism discredits him. He is not doing his "research" with an open mind. In fact he is seeking "proof" that proves his beliefs much in the same way, a Christian archeologists tries to prove the bible as fact.

Right. So essentially if you have an opinion, you shouldn't research it any further because no one should take you seriously because you hold an opinion on the issue to begin with?

Being racist and/or antisemetic doesn't discredit anything as long as his facts stand. For example:

"Zyklon B was used as an insecticide to kill lice, it is non toxic to humans*"

"Oh yeah, well, you're racist so that's wrong!"

The fact is that children can be removed from a home because of the beliefs of the parents if they are harmful to the child's well being. For example, if the parents don't believe in education or health care. If they have neglected the child's education or health then they should be removed.

So you'll kick and scream about the government taking away your right to do something as trivial as smoke in a bar but when it comes down to the government taking away someone's kids solely because of their beliefs, you're all for it? Like I said earlier, no evidence has been presented that the kids were in an abusive environment, our government just doesn't like their politics.

* I recall reading this one somewhere. I don't know if I'm quoting it right or if it's true and I don't really care to debate it. I'm just using it as an example.

i just remembered all those bodies they dug up are civilian deaths due to allied fire bombing.

and all the files and documents so meticulously recorded regarding the camps were falsified by the OSS.

6 million Johnny Gosch's?

El Rhino wrote:

I think that the holocaust portrayal in the mainstream is pretty straight forward.

Some people don't and a lot of research goes into those sort of things. I'm not a "holocaust denier" myself, but I think some of the things considered fact about WWII sound a little shaky and the fact that it's illegal in many European countries to reexamine the history of the holocaust raises suspicion with me. I don't deny or doubt that attrocities were committed all around and certain groups were targeted more than others.

The fact that David Irving is in fact a Racist and an antisemitism discredits him. He is not doing his "research" with an open mind. In fact he is seeking "proof" that proves his beliefs much in the same way, a Christian archeologists tries to prove the bible as fact.

Right. So essentially if you have an opinion, you shouldn't research it any further because no one should take you seriously because you hold an opinion on the issue to begin with?

Being racist and/or antisemetic doesn't discredit anything as long as his facts stand. For example:

"Zyklon B was used as an insecticide to kill lice, it is non toxic to humans*"

"Oh yeah, well, you're racist so that's wrong!"

The fact is that children can be removed from a home because of the beliefs of the parents if they are harmful to the child's well being. For example, if the parents don't believe in education or health care. If they have neglected the child's education or health then they should be removed.

So you'll kick and scream about the government taking away your right to do something as trivial as smoke in a bar but when it comes down to the government taking away someone's kids solely because of their beliefs, you're all for it? Like I said earlier, no evidence has been presented that the kids were in an abusive environment, our government just doesn't like their politics.

* I recall reading this one somewhere. I don't know if I'm quoting it right or if it's true and I don't really care to debate it. I'm just using it as an example.

I should have expressed the difference between an objective opinion and opinion based on faith. I don't think either of us want to go around and around on the amount of evidence that proves the holocaust did in fact happen. Testing gas chambers for chemical traces 60 years after the fact doesn't prove or disprove anything. There are too many first hand accounts of the gas chamber to believe that the intention was to kill those that entered and that the death camps were a killing factory.

There is a great deal of question about what in fact happened and unless you were there it's hard to say but we do know there was a plan to kill off the Jews, Homosexual and those that apposed the Nazis. It was will thought out and done. A bigger question is what was the point? Did the Nazis really believe what they preached or is this a situation where they needed a scape goat and then things got out of control? What was the intent?

Yes, as an adult, I have the ability to control my living situation. A child can't. If we are going to remove healthy and happy children from their parents home because they have been exposed to drug use, why not for being exposed to racism and hatred? It is a slippery slope and a game of where do you draw the line? The same argument could be used for any parent that believes they have a god given right to beat their child with a rod cause it is written in the bible or practices female castration based on their cultural belief.

If it is a harmful environment for the child based on the community standard then yes they should be removed. However if the state can not improve the child's home life they should not be involved. I'm not a fan of the child welfare system in the least bit.

DaVo wrote:If we are going to remove healthy and happy children from their parents home because they have been exposed to drug use, why not for being exposed to racism and hatred?

Drugs are illegal, being a racist, hateful, bigot isn't. Should children being raised with all unpopular moral codes be taken from their parents becasue someone else decided it isn't healthy?

These people are idiots, and not the kind of people that any true white nationalist wants around, but unless they were doing something inherently wrong, the state should not have stepped in.

Any charges are probably trumped up so the state could be seen as taking action to get Morris Dees off their backs.

To be fair, it hasn't been said why the children were taken. It's just as silly to assume they were taken due to the parents' beliefs as it is to assume that they were sexually abused or something.

robdigi wrote:To be fair, it hasn't been said why the children were taken. It's just as silly to assume they were taken due to the parents' beliefs as it is to assume that they were sexually abused or something.

No reason was given for why the children were removed, however, and Holland Township police chief David Van Gilson told the site they had not received any reports of abuse or negligence.


It seems extremely reasonable to me to assume it was due to their beliefs.