515 Crew

[Hank Fist]

Chris Columbus, greatest movie director ever.

[joseph]

Chris Columbus, greatest movie director ever.

dammit you made me look it up.

Ripley's Believe it or Not! (2011) (Director)
The Lightning Thief (2010) (Director)
I Love You Beth Cooper (2009) (Director, Producer)
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007) (Executive Producer)
Night at the Museum (2006) (producer)
Rent (2005) (Director)
Fantastic Four (2005) (Executive Producer)
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (2004) (producer)
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (2002) (exec. producer, director)
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (2001) (exec. producer, director)
Bicentennial Man (1999) (producer, director)
Stepmom (1998) (producer, director, writer)
Nine Months (1995) (director)
Mrs. Doubtfire (1993) (director)
Home Alone 2: Lost in New York (1992) (director)
Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland (1992) (writer)
Only the Lonely (1991) (director, writer)
Home Alone (1990) (director)
Heartbreak Hotel (1988) (director, writer)
Adventures in Babysitting (1987) (director)
Young Sherlock Holmes (1985) (writer)
The Goonies (1985) (writer)
Gremlins (1984) (writer)
Reckless (1984) (writer)

[El Rhino]

Right... But his work in the Americas led to something waaaay more historically significant than a new route to China.

Right... but didnt he die penniless and outcast?(i know i could look all this up but i dont really care)[/quote]


I don't know. Dying penniless (or whatever the smallest denomination of the currency of his choice was) doesn't mean that his voyages weren't significant.

[ilikehorses]

Like who, Ward Churchill? Somehow I don't believe that Columbus and a motley crew of a few dozen Spaniards managed to cause 3 million deaths throughout the Americas. Even considering diseases this land was too sparsely populated for that. Not buying it. In the field of hatin' whitey they can pretty much make any claim they want and certain people completely gobble it up.

it's not by ward churchill.
and the argument is that there is written evidence that columbus' men were very violent. there was one report apparently of them killing people just to test the sharpness of their knives. also, their enslavement practices lead to the deaths of many people due to overworking, malnutrition, and dangerous working conditions.
i'm not saying it's true or not true, but unlike us, the authors researched it. just sayin.

id like some reference points. id also like to see what was typical behavior of these "adventurers". but for finding a shortcut to china columbus= fail

i already said, it was either Peoples History or Lies My Teacher Told Me. i don't have either of those books anymore.

[ilikehorses]

it's not by ward churchill.
and the argument is that there is written evidence that columbus' men were very violent. there was one report apparently of them killing people just to test the sharpness of their knives. also, their enslavement practices lead to the deaths of many people due to overworking, malnutrition, and dangerous working conditions.
i'm not saying it's true or not true, but unlike us, the authors researched it. just sayin.

Right... So let's say that it took the entire German armed forces to kill six million j00z in WWII. Now I'm supposed to believe that a few dozen Spaniards could manage to kill half of that through overworking and testing the sharpness of their knives? That's one hell of a stretch.

I'm not going to say that Columbus wasn't violent. I'm sure he and his dudes were at times. I'm sure at times the injuns were hostile (as they probably should've been)

i don't have those books anymore, otherwise i'd point out specific passages. my main reason for bringing it up is for us to recognize that columbus may have been responsible for more deaths than we like to admit.
i don't know if the three million death figure includes deaths due to new diseases, which i don't think columbus or his men should be held responsible for.

[joseph]

so its columbus fault for anything thats ever happened in the americas cause...

[ilikehorses]

so its columbus fault for anything thats ever happened in the americas cause...

who ever said that?

[El Rhino]

my main reason for bringing it up is for us to recognize that columbus may have been responsible for more deaths than we like to admit.
.

This is one of my pet-peeves with the "I hate whitey" crowd. You people act like stuff like this is new ground. Everyone has heard "Columbus is responsible for killing all the Indians, what a dick" many times before. In recent times the guy has been demonized more than put in a positive light. I know you're just saying "maybe" and not really out to argue this 3 million number, but I still call bullshit on it.

Anyways, the moral of the story is that people should question these sort of things, both the mainstream and not-so-mainstream views.

I think next year I'm going to have a Columbus Day party. It's going to be sweet. Maybe a Leif Ericson party as well.

[ilikehorses]

my main reason for bringing it up is for us to recognize that columbus may have been responsible for more deaths than we like to admit.
.

This is one of my pet-peeves with the "I hate whitey" crowd. You people act like stuff like this is new ground. Everyone has heard "Columbus is responsible for killing all the Indians, what a dick" many times before. In recent times the guy has been demonized more than put in a positive light. I know you're just saying "maybe" and not really out to argue this 3 million number, but I still call bullshit on it.

Anyways, the moral of the story is that people should question these sort of things, both the mainstream and not-so-mainstream views.

I think next year I'm going to have a Columbus Day party. It's going to be sweet. Maybe a Leif Ericson party as well.

i agree that people should question this sort of thing. people should question the 3 million death argument and the "columbus rules" idea. whether or not he and his men killed "too many" indigenous people, they were ruthless toward the people of cuba and san salvador. it's questionable how violent they were in the now US. mostly, if i remember correctly, that after his trips to the islands, the queen of spain decided that a slave trade was not acceptable for whatever reason.

[Hank Fist]

Maybe a Leif Ericson party as well.

i'll bring the lefsa.
really.

[joseph]

so its columbus fault for anything thats ever happened in the americas cause...

who ever said that?

i did and actually i think im just gonna blame him for everything ever

[ilikehorses]

so its columbus fault for anything thats ever happened in the americas cause...

who ever said that?

i did and actually i think im just gonna blame him for everything ever

because fuck whitey.

[joseph]

who ever said that?

i did and actually i think im just gonna blame him for everything ever[/quote]

because fuck whitey.[/quote]im thinkin more of fuck the spanish

[El Rhino]

Maybe a Leif Ericson party as well.

i'll bring the lefsa.
really.

Sweet, I'll make Icelandic lamb stew. It's very tasty.


Looks like we've got a party a-brewin'.

[Big Fat Retard]

Columbus was a punk ass bitch and his momma was a Kumho. That's all we need to know about his retarded self.

[robdigi]

i'll bring the lefsa.
really.

Lefsa is hard to find in Colorado. Fuckin' a.



Anyway, Columbus is history... he did what he did and here we are, hundreds of years later. It doesn't much matter what his public perception is. Can we call statute of limitations on this argument?



That said, whitey still sucks sometimes.

[KY Jelly Belly]

I think next year I'm going to have a Columbus Day party. It's going to be sweet. Maybe a Leif GARRETT party as well.

[El Rhino]

Columbus was a punk ass bitch and his momma was a Kumho. That's all we need to know about his retarded self.

Maybe once Zach De la Rocha & crew completely wash out you can collaborate with them on a song about Columbus?

[Joey Chaos]

well, no one named "la' shaniquashithead" ever was the cause of millions and millions of deaths and a world war. slightly different.

Neither was Hitler, jews were. Get it right.....................

[Crumpty Williams]

Apparently there's an entire "Lies My Teacher Told Me..." book devoted to the subject of Columbus alone: http://www.thenewpress.com/index.php?op ... uctid=1570

Looks interesting.

[Big Fat Retard]

Columbus was a punk ass bitch and his momma was a Kumho. That's all we need to know about his retarded self.

Maybe once Zach De la Rocha & crew completely wash out you can collaborate with them on a song about Columbus?

I was being facetious, but it's ok. Zac De La Rocha is a bitch too. Those first two Rage albums were pretty kick ass though.

[El Rhino]

Neither was Hitler, jews were. Get it right.....................

If I remember right, some of the dudes who plotted to kill Archduke Ferdinand were Jewish so make that two.


Plus they owned all the Spanish slave ships.

[tom2electricboogaloo]

Maybe a Leif Garrett party as well.

[Smoking Guns]

it's in "peoples history..." (by howard zinn) for sure. i don't remember the number either, but it goes into detail about how the natives were treated. one of my favorite parts is where it talks about how the spanish would ride the indigenous people around instead of walking anywhere. and how they made them mine for gold in areas that really had little to no gold, and when the natives failed, they would beat and/or kill them.

i'd have to find the book to give you actual quotes and figures, but it is a fact that columbus and his men had no regard for these peoples' lives. it is also a fact that MOST people aren't taught that columbus, as well as so many other "great men", were actually disgusting human beings who don't deserve the amount of respect and esteem that they get.

sure, he's not as special as hitler, but he's still a worthless piece of shit.

[El Rhino]

. one of my favorite parts is where it talks about how the spanish would ride the indigenous people around instead of walking anywhere.

LOL, right. So a bunch of presumably 5'8" 150lbs Spaniards rode around piggy back on a bunch of presumably 5'2" 110lbs Indians? Sounds to me like that's way more work for the Spaniards than it's worth. Let me guess, the author has some sort of archeological evidence for this in the way of stressed Indian backbones? Some sort of written account from peoples without written languages? I'm going to have to raise the bullshit flag on that one. I'd like to see the author's works cited on that one. Until then I can only assume he's tellin' fibs.

and how they made them mine for gold in areas that really had little to no gold, and when the natives failed, they would beat and/or kill them

.

I bet the gold started flowing then...

i'd have to find the book to give you actual quotes and figures, but it is a fact that columbus and his men had no regard for these peoples' lives

Probably not. I'm sure most of the Indians didn't really regard Columbus' life either.

. it is also a fact that MOST people aren't taught that columbus, as well as so many other "great men", were actually disgusting human beings who don't deserve the amount of respect and esteem that they get.

No, most people are taught that Columbus and the rest of the "dead white men" or whatever the term is were flawed as human beings. You're not blazing any new territory here.

sure, he's not as special as hitler, but he's still a worthless piece of shit.

[/quote]

Columbus pretty much opened up an entire hemisphere to civilization. Let me know when you can put something like that on your resume.

[Smoking Guns]

LOL, right. So a bunch of presumably 5'8" 150lbs Spaniards rode around piggy back on a bunch of presumably 5'2" 110lbs Indians? Sounds to me like that's way more work for the Spaniards than it's worth. Let me guess, the author has some sort of archeological evidence for this in the way of stressed Indian backbones? Some sort of written account from peoples without written languages? I'm going to have to raise the bullshit flag on that one. I'd like to see the author's works cited on that one. Until then I can only assume he's tellin' fibs.

there was a written account from the people WITH language. THE SPANISH. they have journals from people who were there. not EVERY spanish person is a dickhead. there were some there who refused to take part in causing pain and suffering to the native people. i don't have the book at the moment, but when i get it back, i'll let you know.

I bet the gold started flowing then...

no. it didn't. that's the point. these people were not only cruel, they were stupid and greedy.

Probably not. I'm sure most of the Indians didn't really regard Columbus' life either.

you know... i'm not sure. but until one of us finds proof that the natives tried to enslave the spanish, i'm gonna have to say that these two groups are NOT to be looked at the same way.

No, most people are taught that Columbus and the rest of the "dead white men" or whatever the term is were flawed as human beings. You're not blazing any new territory here.

no. i don't believe this is true at all. maybe for someone like you, who obviously has a real interest in history and anthropology, and is eager to learn on his/her own, but most people either do not know about the negative sides of our forefathers, or they do not care to know. and by saying things like, "you're not blazing any new territory," you're basically saying that we should stop talking about the negative aspects of these "LEADERS", and only focus on the positives (which is definitely not blazing any new territory either).

Columbus pretty much opened up an entire hemisphere to civilization. Let me know when you can put something like that on your resume.

i would rather not put that on my resume if it means taking the steps he took to get there.

[Big Fat Retard]

Your teacher used to learn in school
How a cow flies over the moon
You teacher used to learn in school
How a dish run away with a spoon, so

You can't blame the youth
You can't fool the youth
You can't blame the youth of today

You teacher used teach about Christopher Columbus
And you said he was a very great man
You used to teach about Marco Polo
And you said he was a very great man, so

You can't blame the youth
You can't fool the youth
You can't blame the youth, not at all

When every Christmas comes around
You buy the youth a fancy toy
When every Christmas comes around
You buy the youth a fancy toy, so

You can't blame the youth
You can't fool the youth
You can't blame the youth, not at all

you teacher used teach about Pirate Hawkins
you teacher used teach about Pirate Morgan
And you said he was a very great man
you teacher used teach about Christopher Columbus
And you said he was a very great man
you teacher used teach about Marco Polo, so

You can't blame the youth
You can't fool the youth
You can't blame the youth of today

[El Rhino]

there was a written account from the people WITH language. THE SPANISH. they have journals from people who were there. not EVERY spanish person is a dickhead. there were some there who refused to take part in causing pain and suffering to the native people. i don't have the book at the moment, but when i get it back, i'll let you know.

Please do. I'd like to know the sources for this. I have a feeling it's more of a dramatization than solid fact. I wouldn't doubt that some chickenfights broke out when the Spaniards were bored, but I have problem believing that people who were ambitious enough to sail into the stormy Atlantic for months and months on pretty much nothing but faith would be content to get from point A to B by trudging along on the back of a tiny little Indian.

no. it didn't. that's the point. these people were not only cruel, they were stupid and greedy.

Lighten up, Francis.

you know... i'm not sure. but until one of us finds proof that the natives tried to enslave the spanish, i'm gonna have to say that these two groups are NOT to be looked at the same way.

How do less than a hundred guys go about enslaving however many Indians there were? I'm sure Columbus encountered hostility and returned it.

no. i don't believe this is true at all. maybe for someone like you, who obviously has a real interest in history and anthropology, and is eager to learn on his/her own, but most people either do not know about the negative sides of our forefathers, or they do not care to know. and by saying things like, "you're not blazing any new territory," you're basically saying that we should stop talking about the negative aspects of these "LEADERS", and only focus on the positives (which is definitely not blazing any new territory either).

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the negative aspects of "LEADERS". Believe me, there are some historical figures who have been practically sainted who I do not view as decent or worthwhile. I'm just saying it's kind of funny that "you people" act like you're privy to some exclusive information that the general public doesn't know about when you say "Columbus is bad!"

[Big Fat Retard]

It's a well known fact that Columbus had any native who refused to become Catholic killed . Face it, Columbus was a punk who got lost and had no idea where he landed. Nords and Asians were here long before him so he never "discovered" America. He did absolutely nothing that made a positive difference in world history.

[Smoking Guns]

Please do. I'd like to know the sources for this. I have a feeling it's more of a dramatization than solid fact. I wouldn't doubt that some chickenfights broke out when the Spaniards were bored, but I have problem believing that people who were ambitious enough to sail into the stormy Atlantic for months and months on pretty much nothing but faith would be content to get from point A to B by trudging along on the back of a tiny little Indian.

yeah. i doubt it was the only means of getting from point A to point B, and even if it was just for sport, it's still a cruel thing to do. (although i'm sure it was also quite hillarious)

How do less than a hundred guys go about enslaving however many Indians there were? I'm sure Columbus encountered hostility and returned it.

encountering hostility from those that you've attacked and taken prisoner is not really out of line, is it?

I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about the negative aspects of "LEADERS". Believe me, there are some historical figures who have been practically sainted who I do not view as decent or worthwhile. I'm just saying it's kind of funny that "you people" act like you're privy to some exclusive information that the general public doesn't know about when you say "Columbus is bad!"

i'm definitely NOT saying that i'm smarter or better than anyone else by talking about the negatives of the spanish invasion of the americas. i just like to spread the knowledge that there are two sides to everything, and most things are taught and presented as very one sided.