515 Crew

[Smoking Guns]

yo. davo.

just so i can understand where you're coming from... what's the most recent album or band you listen to, and also... can you name any new music?

do you even know what is going on with independent music these days?

you talk about how you hate the rehashed garbage, but then you talk about how you hate anything that's not punk rock. you leave yourself with nothing to like.

punk rock is dead. if you want to find something that has the same emotion and uniqueness that punk rock once had, you need to branch out and leave behind all those 'safe' bands.

also... you've admitted that you are not a part of the des moines music scene, that you haven't been for quite a few years, but then you come and give us a lecture. how can you even pretend to know what you're talking about?

[teedotjaydot]

first off, VM is not closed and won't be till at least the fall, if it does end up closing.

as joseph said, comparing the Mews and Mary's is pointless.

Mary's was like a home to me, but i can say without a doubt that the Mews is a much more accessible place that has more to offer as a whole than Mary's ever did. If you weren't part of the "buddy crowd" at Mary's you were run off. I saw it happen over and over again. Trying to bring in new blood to that bar without "approval" or without some kind of history on the newbie's part resulted in shunning. That's part of what makes the Mews great, there's no "regular" crowd there to claim ownership of the place. Everybody is welcome as long as you act like a grownup while you're there (we make exceptions for Storkus).

Mary's was important for a certain couple of niche groups. It provided a great home to us/them and made for times that many, including myself, will never forget.

the Mews is important for music in Des Moines. Even if you only attend a handful of shows there every year, those shows more than likely wouldn't hit anywhere closer than IC if it weren't for the Mews. It's the only venue in recent history that is open to any and all types of music. Davo, if the genres you list out are the only ones you think play down there, you're not paying attention.

One of the things that makes the VM special to me is the fact that I can stop down there on any given night without prior knowledge of what show it is and chances are I'll be surprised with a band/genre of band i haven't heard before.

VM introduced me to Sir Richard Bishop, Giant Bear, Theodore, Matt Woods and the Thunderbolts, Thunderbird Kingsley, the Soul Searchers, Chow Nasty, Glorytellers, the Paper Chase etc. etc. and has allowed me to see them and so many more that I almost certainly would've had to drive to IC or farther to see if i wished.

For those who do care about the Mews and wish to do something to help keep it around, do like Hank Fist did and get ahold of Cityview, the DM Register, Juice and let them know you think that VM is a viable place that needs to stay. If the powers that be see a public outcry for the place, chances are they'll want to keep it around.

Disclosure: yes I'm employed by the Mews and their closing would affect my pocket, but even if I didn't work there I'd still be as grateful to VM and wish the best for all involved.

[El Rhino]

If you weren't part of the "buddy crowd" at Mary's you were run off. I saw it happen over and over again. .

Unfortunately this was very true. Hell, I have been going to that building for years and years and I even caught a little bit of that whenever there would be a newer person in the "buddy crowd". Those of you that know me know that I usually look like a normal, clean-cut guy so I've gotten the third degree at the door before for not having a bunch of (visable) shitty tattoos and a black stoner metal t-shirt. I remember one night Jim Dog really pissing me off with his attitude at the door, especially since I had never seen that guy in my life. I'm sure he's an alright guy and all, but I'm not going to put the guy on my Christmas card list or anything.

Well said post, TJ.



Anyways, I think a lot of this argument is pretty gay. Davo doesn't like VM because it doesn't cater to his tastes, some of you didn't like Hairy Mary's because it didn't cater to yours, blah blah blah.

The anti-punk sentiments as of late are kind of comical though. Some of you guys seem really sore that someone might not like "fagz with keyboards" and like a style of music that you view as being beneath you.

[DaVo]

yo. davo.

just so i can understand where you're coming from... what's the most recent album or band you listen to, and also... can you name any new music?

do you even know what is going on with independent music these days?

you talk about how you hate the rehashed garbage, but then you talk about how you hate anything that's not punk rock. you leave yourself with nothing to like.

punk rock is dead. if you want to find something that has the same emotion and uniqueness that punk rock once had, you need to branch out and leave behind all those 'safe' bands.

also... you've admitted that you are not a part of the des moines music scene, that you haven't been for quite a few years, but then you come and give us a lecture. how can you even pretend to know what you're talking about?

Let's see Flogging Molly's Float, Antiheros last record, NOFX's last live record and the new Rancid. Mostly I've been filling cracks in the collection. A lot of Oi! and old Hardcore but also Jazz, rockabillie, blues, Jump and folk.

I'm still to this day, daily contacted by agencies and bands to play Des Moines and give a majority of them a listen. I'd say I listen to at least 10 to 20 new bands a week. Some I listen to one song others four or five. It's been months since one stood out. We are talking everything from Punk to metal, indy to hippie. So no I don't live in a cave, I'm just picky and know a hook when I hear it.

This is not just an issue of taste, we are talking new voices not just style. A majority of what seems to be coming out is rehash. I'm not saying that to be good you have to reinvent the wheel but at least make the wheel your own. Too often I can pick out the four or five bands they were listening to when they wrote the song. Sorry but there is simply a purity of going to the source that has driven my interest. If a band I liked praised an older band, it was usually the next purchase that I made and traced it back to the source. This at times can be considered over thinking the art and can take the magic out of the music. However if the band is good and the music well crafted they will stand up or often surpass their influences. Others fail sadily, for example Hatebreed just doesn't live up to the Cromags or Agnostic Front in their hey day. That doesn't mean that Hatebreed doesn't write good songs or have talent, it's just their songs aren't that great and they aren't that talented.

Maybe this comes from the scene I came of age in. Locally you had the Hollowmen which sounded nothing like Pent-up Aggression who didn't sound like COTC that really had little in common with UWTB but they were all considered punk and Hardcore. Shared bills and we a tight little group of friends. On a national level Black Flag didn't sound like the Bad Brains, MDC didn't sound like DRI and no one sounded like Flipper but they all carried the same flag. Sure it narrowed toward the end and they all went in different directions but it was a hell of a lot more interesting.

I blame the internet largely and media files. Scenes are nolonger local, they tend to follow national and world wide scenes. Which only causes inbreeding and laziness. You have to ask could the internet produce the Butthole Suffers or Big Black? If it did would it just create a few thousand clones or allow the bands to evolve? Also it has created the ablity for people to be a great deal more sellective about what they listen to or see. It's narrowing music into a bunch of ready made off the rack substandard bull shit.

It always comes down to what gets you off, makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up, and puts a smile on your face and sorry but it's been a while since a band had that effect.

This subject always reminds me of Walk in Cold by Naked Raygun:

Ever consider
From boiling water the residue?
A sea full of people
But after the action who's left with you?
They're standing on others.
You're standing on hope to see you thru.
The atmosphere's wanning
They stand on your toes they breathe with you

With virgin eye and heart of cold
And mind of child I swear it's
Not the way I thought it would be

And of the others?
Fools in a glass house throwing stones
Delusions of lacking
Unless one can top it leave it alone
A no - alee dream place
Where waves in my blood crash violent tone
And after all effort
The pain and the rainclaim you their own

With virgin eye and heart of cold
And mind of child I swear it's
Not the way I thought it would be.

[teedotjaydot]

Anyways, I think a lot of this argument is pretty gay. Davo doesn't like VM because it doesn't cater to his tastes, some of you didn't like Hairy Mary's because it didn't cater to yours, blah blah blah.

I think it's a little more than fair to say it just doesn't cater exclusively to his taste.

Davo, correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you done shows there? As in, around a half dozen if not more?

it amazes me that anyone could bash a venue that opened their doors to them. And please drop the whole "they rip off promoters" argument. I do believe that was all but vanquished in the Scented Vinyl thread by way of Joey's idiocy.

[DaVo]

first off, VM is not closed and won't be till at least the fall, if it does end up closing.

as joseph said, comparing the Mews and Mary's is pointless.

Mary's was like a home to me, but i can say without a doubt that the Mews is a much more accessible place that has more to offer as a whole than Mary's ever did. If you weren't part of the "buddy crowd" at Mary's you were run off. I saw it happen over and over again. Trying to bring in new blood to that bar without "approval" or without some kind of history on the newbie's part resulted in shunning. That's part of what makes the Mews great, there's no "regular" crowd there to claim ownership of the place. Everybody is welcome as long as you act like a grownup while you're there (we make exceptions for Storkus).

Mary's was important for a certain couple of niche groups. It provided a great home to us/them and made for times that many, including myself, will never forget.

the Mews is important for music in Des Moines. Even if you only attend a handful of shows there every year, those shows more than likely wouldn't hit anywhere closer than IC if it weren't for the Mews. It's the only venue in recent history that is open to any and all types of music. Davo, if the genres you list out are the only ones you think play down there, you're not paying attention.

One of the things that makes the VM special to me is the fact that I can stop down there on any given night without prior knowledge of what show it is and chances are I'll be surprised with a band/genre of band i haven't heard before.

VM introduced me to Sir Richard Bishop, Giant Bear, Theodore, Matt Woods and the Thunderbolts, Thunderbird Kingsley, the Soul Searchers, Chow Nasty, Glorytellers, the Paper Chase etc. etc. and has allowed me to see them and so many more that I almost certainly would've had to drive to IC or farther to see if i wished.

For those who do care about the Mews and wish to do something to help keep it around, do like Hank Fist did and get ahold of Cityview, the DM Register, Juice and let them know you think that VM is a viable place that needs to stay. If the powers that be see a public outcry for the place, chances are they'll want to keep it around.

Disclosure: yes I'm employed by the Mews and their closing would affect my pocket, but even if I didn't work there I'd still be as grateful to VM and wish the best for all involved.

I've gotten shitty service there about 2 or 3 years ago, I stood there for 10 minutes while a group of regulars walked up behind and the bartender took their order and served them drinks a head of me. The first time, I figured he didn't notice me but the thrid and forth time it happened I made eye contact and then he skipped me. He is nolonger there as far as I know but at two different shows I got the locals only vibe.

Yes Mary's had it's club but name a scene that doesn't. Every social group has trolls at the entrance. Often over protective and stupid. I have had the same vibe at Mews more than a couple of times.

Understnad that I'm not saying burn the place to the ground but I really have noticed little difference with the place being there. Maybe I work too much to hunt out the three or four gems that wonder into that place. But as I said I will miss the John Doe shows and the couple of others like Johnathan Richmon.

[DaVo]

Anyways, I think a lot of this argument is pretty gay. Davo doesn't like VM because it doesn't cater to his tastes, some of you didn't like Hairy Mary's because it didn't cater to yours, blah blah blah.

I think it's a little more than fair to say it just doesn't cater exclusively to his taste.

Davo, correct me if I'm wrong but haven't you done shows there? As in, around a half dozen if not more?

it amazes me that anyone could bash a venue that opened their doors to them. And please drop the whole "they rip off promoters" argument. I do believe that was all but vanquished in the Scented Vinyl thread by way of Joey's idiocy.

I did one show there. The Effigies and either it was miscommunacation or whatever. When I was handed the cut it was $60 short. When I tried to get Lad or whoever on the phone there was no answer or reply to text messages. In fact he never contacted me. Add that to the fact that I know at least 8 people that walked in without paying cause the doorman was too busy texting to notice. What do you call it? I set it up through Nate so maybe it was a case of telephone but the fact that Lad didn't get ahold of me to clear it up. And that I've heard from a number of people that this happened to them, makes me feel it was a case of them ripping me off. Since I handed everything I got from the door over to the band, they in fact ripped them off. If it wasn't intentional they know how to get ahold of me but until that happens VM gets the label of ripping off bands and promoters.

[Joey Chaos]

The Mews did have plenty of shows with great turnouts.

The Mews never did, will or could hold a candle to Marys as a venue, Bar or basically home.

I don't want to see the Mews close, but if it does...yawn. Not that big of a deal.

[Big Fat Retard]

Can Des Moines live music get any lamer?

Go to www.myspace.com/jrshighrollers or come to the Hull May 31st and find out for yourself.

[maxxwell]

Word on the "i get contacted every day about a new band trying to get booked" well if you were, are or were even associated by any type of booking company this will happen. I haven't been actively booking shows for about 2 years since i started touring and i still get at least 10 packages a day who cares your email and contact info is going to be in the grid for A LONG time.

The mews and the haunted basement are two huge important parts of the des moines scene right now, they both are bringing back the unity in the town and deff bring back in a new fresh crowd to boot.

I don't think the size of the show really matters more the quality, guarantee's can be made easily and unless a bands a piece of shit they wont care if theres 20 kids or 200 kids i mean its a blast having a ton of people there but hey id rather have 10 kids who are all LOVING your music than 200 people showing up to drink at the bar and socialize.

Thats just my two cents.

[Smoking Guns]

Let's see Flogging Molly's Float, Antiheros last record, NOFX's last live record and the new Rancid. Mostly I've been filling cracks in the collection. A lot of Oi! and old Hardcore but also Jazz, rockabillie, blues, Jump and folk.

this is kinda what i'm trying to point out. you mostly stick to a genre that hasn't produced anything new or original for at least 20 years, or genres that are based around the same chord-progressions and styles. (i dare you to show me a current oi!, rockabilly, blues, jump, or folk band who is doing anything original.) don't get me wrong, that's totally fine, but if you want to find the next innovative artist, you'll have to start looking outside of your comfort zone.

i can understand where you're coming from, for the most part. because it's so much easier to start a band and make it accessible to the world, the indie or underground market is overrun with shitty music. this doesn't mean that there isn't gold out there, it just makes it a lot harder to find.

your question about if the internet could make the butthole surfers is all wrong. the internet is not going to make a band like that. the only thing that can make a band like that is the musicians. neither them nor big black were bands that had mainstream success or even really looked for it. best case scenario, the internet helps to expose them to more people who will dig what they're doing. worst case scenario, the internet buries them underneath all the generic shit, in which case they can continue to do what they love for the people who enjoy it, or they can give up. no matter what technology and society are doing, there will be artists who continue to create regardless of who gives a fuck, and there will be people who recognize what they're doing as something special.

like i said before, the internet isn't narrowing music, it's just making it harder for you to discover the really great stuff.

[ilikehorses]

god, i skipped over everything davo wrote. he has never written anything constructive, why would he start now?

i would be sad if the mews closed. it is a VERY important part of the des moines music scene, even if davo doesn't agree. HOB can't cater to many genres, there's only so much the haunted basement can do.. without the mews, des moines will stop have as many awesome shows as it does.

as for the mews vs marys debate, i take the side of the mews, as any non-regular of mary's would. yeah, it's non-smoking. the sounds guys at the mews are better generally than the ones at marys (tom being the only exception. otherwise, the sounds guys consistently did poor jobs, if they could be found). the atmosphere is much better, as many people don't feel threatened to go into the mews, as many did mary's. all around, it is a better venue/bar.
has it been as crucial to the des moines music scene as mary's was? probably not. hairy mary's was a big-time player in the des moines music and national shows. but that does not take away from the importance the mews plays now.

also, as much as i love punk and listen to it a lot, punk gets really boring after listening to it for over a decade. i have to listen to other genres just to not hate music. i don't know how davo does it, listening to the same bands and same genres for so long.

[teedotjaydot]

the sounds guys at the mews are better generally than the ones at marys (tom being the only exception. otherwise, the sounds guys consistently did poor jobs, if they could be found)

this is where you lost me.

especially considering that Richard was the main soundguy at Marys for the last couple years it was there, and now is one of the "generally better ones" you speak of at the Mews. It's not like the Mews made him a better soundguy, he's been consistently good ever since i've known him. That and if you missed Joey Hollywood in his good days....you really missed out.

i know that's not what this is about, but i just had to say something.

[Joey Chaos]

I'll second that. Richard is a very good sound guy. He used to get a lot of crap at Marys, but if people realized that every piece of sound equipment in the joint was broken, and Richard was the only person that could nigger rig it good enough to work at all, they would have changed their tune. Hollywood is also good. A little sucky to work with from a bands point of view, but real good on the board.

[Bullet Tooth]

i was a regular at marys. i worked there for a while. i liked it and i always had a good time. some bad things, some good things.

mews is fun for shows. i usually have a good time. i go there as much as i can for shows. again, some good things, some bad things.

both places were/are good for the scene. you just have to not be a pussy.

seriously..suck it up, fellas. god forbid you have to be inconvenienced. this goes for those bitching about either place.

its never a good thing to lose a venue. people should do what they can to help. marys, while i had a great time while it was there, stopped being a part of the scene even before it closed. the mews is CURRENTLY active. while some may not like it that much, its better to have some place for shows than no place for shows.

[ilikehorses]

i saw people other than richard doing sound. and maybe it wasn't their fault, maybe all of the equipment was bad. either way, sound at marys was often HORRIBLE.

i think richard is very good too. i guess i just forgot him.

[Tom]

how in thee hell did a thread about the mews' rumored closing get steered down the dirt road of davo's punk rock trivia, only to be detoured onto the 'sweet soundguy' boulevard?

i mean, really.

btw...richard turns a sweet knob (not in a gay way).

[Joey Chaos]

I had absolutely nothing to do with it this time.

[hairy]

I do not remember Davo ever coming to Hairy Marys downtown. I do not recall Davo at any of my live music venues before Hairy Marys. Davo booked maaaybeeee
6 percent of the shows on University.....With that, Davo please leave Hairy Marys out of this. It was so much more then what most of you were around for.
For whats its worth, I think losing the Mews will be a great loss to this city.

[Beaver]

there's no "regular" crowd there to claim ownership of the place.

Except me. I o3n all. Nikkaz cant step to this.

Richard can get beat up by 10 year old girls.

Punk rock IS DEAD. Sorry that shit aint cool. Avril is punk.

Lets burn 4th st ala' the Great Chicago Fire.

[Big Fat Retard]

Does anyone really know if the Mews is really closing? Until it's verified, does it matter?

[teedotjaydot]

please refer to the beginning of my super long post with your answer in bold up there hombre.

[Big Fat Retard]

please refer to the beginning of my super long post with your answer in bold up there hombre.

So nobody really knows. I like going to shows there so I hope they stay open. If they don't, I'm sure there will be other places to play. Always has been, always will.

[teedotjaydot]

please refer to the beginning of my super long post with your answer in bold up there hombre.

So nobody really knows. I like going to shows there so I hope they stay open. If they don't, I'm sure there will be other places to play. Always has been, always will.

jeebus....

first off, VM is not closed and won't be till at least the fall, if it does end up closing.

in other words, pure speculation on the closing tip as of now

[tylerjames515]

Vaudeville, just last night they had a sweet show...if you were there and didn't like one of the bands then you are lying and im pretty sure everyone had a good time...it's just an awesome place to hang at too. Losing it will suck over some shitty apartments.

[El Rhino]

I heard Baldwin was going to buy it and call it "Scary Mary's"

[elliot]

The first show I went to at the Mews was Blood Brothers and Akimbo. It's been sweet ever since, and I really don't want to see it go.

If the Mews closes, let's think about this. We'll have House of Bricks and...Shooter's Hideaway. That's it. Unless we can find some bar that does shows and make friends with a promoter there and turn it into something better, we're fucked. Someone's going to have to open a new place, or the amount of good shows that come here will be severely diminished. I'll play shows at House of Bricks, but I won't enjoy it that much. And I pretty much will refuse to play at Shooter's. I'm sure Johnny Reeferseed will have something to say about that. Fuck you, in adavance.

Let's just hope that whoever makes this decision comes to their senses and keeps the Mews around. And if they don't, we'll have to all put our heads together and try something, and not be driven apart by musical taste or cliques.

Except for Johnny Reeferseed. We'll leave him out.

[DaVo]

I do not remember Davo ever coming to Hairy Marys downtown. I do not recall Davo at any of my live music venues before Hairy Marys. Davo booked maaaybeeee
6 percent of the shows on University.....With that, Davo please leave Hairy Marys out of this. It was so much more then what most of you were around for.
For whats its worth, I think losing the Mews will be a great loss to this city.

Saw a number of shows down there. When Mary's first open I was spending most of my weekends out of town in Lawrence, Chicago, Minn, etc..., seeing shows I wanted to see. If people think I'm pighead about what I will listen or subject myself to, you should have seen me in my 20s. I was a little nazi about it. Shows that I remember from the old Mary's are, L7, Mercy Rule's first show there, X, Digits, Supersuckers, NIL8, and a shitload that played on quarter draw night. I remember walking in there one night right after it opened and laughing at myself the number of people I noticed that had been space dancing at Z a few nights earlier. Only now they were all wear flannel. It was like over night they went from moody new romantics to depressed Grunge rockers. That impression stuck with me and an image I had of the place for sometime. Looking back I was wrong but I was 22 or so. Also you gave me shit for passing out flyers for this show I was doing.

As far as the other two, I saw a few bands at Hydant. Don't remember who. Plus I was underage and it was the last of the hall shows that Kareem put on, Vandals, Agent Orange, Screem, etc... Most of the people that I knew in the scene were too yojng, got into metal or disco about that time. That you kicked me out one night and wouldn't let us in to the NOFX show.

I never went to IL. In fact I think the only time I was in there was a few early all ages shows when I first got into punk, when it was still Riff's. Add to the fact that I can hold a grudge and was still pissed about the NOFX thing.

Did I ever claim to be the force behind Mary's? Sure I booked a lot of shows there but the truth is that I did more and made more inpact when it was owned by Tony and Shawn. I suffered through the Jake period and kept what I was doing after John, Fathead and you bought. When I retired, I was burned out and knew it. I think I had been at that point for a while, then I'd get a call about a band and get drug back in willingly. I'm regreatfull for all the support the three of you gave me and the scene. After the UK Subs, I did maybe 2 or 3 shows. It felt like the right thing to do since Gus seemed to have it under control. I continued to go there for years after except the period of about a year when Gus pissed me off one too many times and hung out mostly at Lucky's. Oh and at your request, came back and booked for about a year toward the end. Not sure what % that was.

You guys put up with so much shit through the years and I have to say thank you for that.

All I said about Mary's was that I found it funny that the same members that were dogging Mary's when it closed, are the same people whinning that Mews was closing. I'm sorry if it got mixed up in my own personal venue of the Mews that wasn't my intention.

BTW congrats on the SS biker build off.

[DaVo]

Let's see Flogging Molly's Float, Antiheros last record, NOFX's last live record and the new Rancid. Mostly I've been filling cracks in the collection. A lot of Oi! and old Hardcore but also Jazz, rockabillie, blues, Jump and folk.

this is kinda what i'm trying to point out. you mostly stick to a genre that hasn't produced anything new or original for at least 20 years, or genres that are based around the same chord-progressions and styles. (i dare you to show me a current oi!, rockabilly, blues, jump, or folk band who is doing anything original.) don't get me wrong, that's totally fine, but if you want to find the next innovative artist, you'll have to start looking outside of your comfort zone.

i can understand where you're coming from, for the most part. because it's so much easier to start a band and make it accessible to the world, the indie or underground market is overrun with shitty music. this doesn't mean that there isn't gold out there, it just makes it a lot harder to find.

your question about if the internet could make the butthole surfers is all wrong. the internet is not going to make a band like that. the only thing that can make a band like that is the musicians. neither them nor big black were bands that had mainstream success or even really looked for it. best case scenario, the internet helps to expose them to more people who will dig what they're doing. worst case scenario, the internet buries them underneath all the generic shit, in which case they can continue to do what they love for the people who enjoy it, or they can give up. no matter what technology and society are doing, there will be artists who continue to create regardless of who gives a fuck, and there will be people who recognize what they're doing as something special.

like i said before, the internet isn't narrowing music, it's just making it harder for you to discover the really great stuff.

Answer me this, If I'm still discovering music that I haven't heard in a set gerne that I been listening to for over 20 years, why look else where. there is something very complex about writing a song in a most simplest form that is a hell of a lot harder then reinventing the wheel.

Jazz especially BeBop is anything but narrow or uncomplicated. Oh and it's a hell of a lot more interesting then progressive jack music or whinny indy rock.

With folk/roots/singer song writer stuff it's more about the lyrics and the craft of the song writing. When I first saw Dave Alvin it was all about the fact that he was in the Blasters but the story tell and images is what drew me in.

A lot of this all comes down to taste. It takes something special to shake me out of what attracts me to a band. They have to click with me and usually it's something that flash in the corner of my eye. It demands attention and not something I'm looking for.

The point I was trying to make with the internet is that a lot of the out there, never heard before or seeing anythng like that came out of small scenes that no one even knew existed. With the internet these small scenes have become the focus. It's like the scene has a 100 suburbs full of cherleaders unwilling to test or challenge anyone and the downtown is dead. I understand that shit always floats on the top but the vew seems completely blocked at this point.

[DaVo]

also, as much as i love punk and listen to it a lot, punk gets really boring after listening to it for over a decade. i have to listen to other genres just to not hate music. i don't know how davo does it, listening to the same bands and same genres for so long.

It depends on the bands. Most good band progessed through their life as a band. The good ones went as far as changing their sound on every record. Also keep in mind I don't just listen to punk or the same bands. I do tend to go back to a number of bands as they draw me but there's a lot in that 2 decades that I highly doubt you have ever heard.