515 Crew

[ilikehorses]

the main problem i've seen is that they don't research what does should and shouldn't eat. i've seen people give semi-poisonous (is there such a thing?) things to their dogs as treats.

I think part of the problem is that there are some vegans/vegetarians who automatically assume that vegan/vegetarian automatically means healthier, period. I believe you and I briefly discussed this.

***Before I go any further, I'm not anti-vegan by any means, I'm actually anti-anti-vegan. If someone wants to be a vegan, good for them, seriously. Spare me your "ALL MEAT EATERS HAVE GOOD DIETS " posts. ****

I think it's kind of cruel to deprive an animal in your care/captivity access to the nutrients they need. Sure, you can live off McDonald's, Doritos, Hot Pockets and Mt. Dew (or on the veg side, soy chik'n nuggets, frozen bean burritos and potato chips) but that's a personal choice you make and you have the ability to come across decent food. There's not much the dog can do about it.

If you are able to provide enough nutritional and appetizing food to your dog through vegetarian means, cool. If you're feeding him your leftover Oriental flavor ramen noodles, you're gay. On the flip side, if your dog exists on frozen pizza and Pop Tarts or some shit, you're gay too.

I feed my dog this brand of frozen food that's 95% raw meat (lamb, sometimes chicken) and 5% vegetables. After it's thawed, he gets 1/4 pound a meal along with a handful of thawed frozen green beans. He loves it. Whenever we have to feed him canned or dry food he gets pissy, even if it's the good shit.

well, the truth is that what's heathy or even just acceptable by human standards is not necessarily healthy or acceptable for a dog or cat. a cat is a pure carnivore, from what i've heard/read. i've heard about people trying to raise their cats vegan and how unhealthy the cat becomes.

[Hank Fist]

i've heard about people trying to raise their cats vegan and how unhealthy the cat becomes.

yeah, retarded. Like that couple that tried to make their newborn vegan. They gave it juice. It died. They were not smart. But anyways, Humans aren't meant to be vegan. sorry.

[ilikehorses]

i've heard about people trying to raise their cats vegan and how unhealthy the cat becomes.

yeah, retarded. Like that couple that tried to make their newborn vegan. They gave it juice. It died. They were not smart. But anyways, Humans aren't meant to be vegan. sorry.

that's a huge argument that neither of us are going to win.

and being vegan has VERY LITTLE with what we're "supposed" to be and more with how awful we have become.

[@nonymous]

ed is right. if we were all feral animals without all of the problems western civilization has caused us, you might find me next to you at the camp fire sharing some hunted boar.

but nowadays with dioxins and other chemicals in meat and dairy products that cause cancer and whatever else, we can't trust what we eat. being vegan is the healthiest and most compassionate choice.

adaptation dudes.

[Smoking Guns]

what are humans MEANT to be??

i don't believe humans are or were ever MEANT to be anything.

and to me, a vegetarian or vegan diet seems a logical part of our evolution. so i feel we're more MEANT to be leaning towards removing meat from our diets.

[joseph]

but nowadays with dioxins and other chemicals in meat and dairy products that cause cancer and whatever else, we can't trust what we eat.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17582295/

http://www.newsweek.com/id/123060


this is what i was looking for
Organic food: Is it worth the extra money?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13737389/

[Bullet Tooth]

its all opinion.

theres veggies with toxins and theres meat with toxins. theres both without.

what humans are meant to do is what they choose on their own. theres really no basis for either side winning in this debate. you can be very healthy on either side. im really getting tired of this stupid ass discussion.

do what you want, shut up about it. thanks.

[@nonymous]

its all opinion.

actually, it's not. there are actual facts out there, insofar as you believe it is possible to prove such a thing--if not, then there are no facts and absolutely nothing in the world can, will or has ever been proven, is that right?

here some good info on dioxins:

http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/

Dioxins and furans are some of the most toxic chemicals known to science.

The best way to avoid dioxin exposure is to reduce or eliminate your consumption of meat and dairy products by adopting a vegan diet. According to a May 2001 study of dioxin in foods, "The category with the lowest [dioxin] level was a simulated vegan diet, with 0.09 ppt.... Blood dioxin levels in pure vegans have also been found to be very low in comparison with the general population, indicating a lower contribution of these foods to human dioxin body burden.

there is a ridiculous amount of information backing this up from reputable sources.

[joseph]

its all opinion.

actually, it's not. there are actual facts out there, insofar as you believe it is possible to prove such a thing--if not, then there are no facts and absolutely nothing in the world can, will or has ever been proven, is that right?

is 3 bigger than 1 or is 1 bigger than 3.

is the hole more important than the meat or is the meat more important than the hole?

our facts could be our opinions. so youre both right.

[@nonymous]

dioxin levels also build up in our bodies. it's so prevalent in our diets it is found in every mothers' breast milk.

people will make excuses for anything i guess. as my grandmother would say, "no one's going to take my meat. i have to have my meat."

[@nonymous]

is the hole more important than the meat or is the meat more important than the hole?

in no stretch of the imagination does this sentence make sense.

[joseph]

is the hole more important than the meat or is the meat more important than the hole?

in no stretch of the imagination does this sentence make sense.

ZACHALY

[joseph]

dioxin levels also build up in our bodies. it's so prevalent in our diets it is found in every mothers' breast milk.

not disputing just started looking up dioxins
http://www.ific.org/publications/qa/dioxinqa.cfm
"The EPA is working to discourage the practice of backyard trash burning, currently estimated by the EPA to be the single largest source of dioxins to the environment. Information about the hazards of open trash burning and alternative methods for trash disposal are available in a series of brochures produced by the EPA."

heres the brochure link-http://www.epa.gov/msw/backyard/pubs.htm

[joseph]

wow they have very good writers. i almost feel comforted.

"Final Note:

Humans will always be exposed to some low level of dioxins because there are natural sources of these compounds. To date, there have been no established health effects in humans from this low level exposure. Americans should continue to enjoy foods from all food groups, including lean meats, poultry and fish, as well as low-fat and non-fat milk and dairy products as outlined in the 2005 Dietary Guidelines for Americans.

It is important to remember that as Americans, we enjoy one of the safest food supplies in the world. The federal government, regulators, educators and physicians can all agree that a well balanced diet, rich in a variety of fruits, vegetables and grains, is key to a healthful lifestyle."

[Bullet Tooth]

so i guess i was right.

thanks for the opinions, adam.

[@nonymous]

ha, how were you right? because a govn't website isn't telling people to stop consuming one of the biggest "resources" in our economy?

my point is that a vegan/vegetarian diet reduces your chance for cancer and other diseases associated with our current culture.

here's another good site(with info that can be found anywhere that doesn't have a direct interest of sustaining the animal industry):

http://www.cancerproject.org/protective ... t_diet.php

let's go over some basic healthy tips, eh kids?

Steps you can take to maximize the cancer-fighting power of your diet:

Build your diet from a variety of fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes.

Include daily servings of brightly-colored fruits and vegetables and dark green, leafy vegetables.

Avoid foods from animal sources.

Select foods low in fat and salt.

Choose whole or minimally-processed foods over highly-processed foods and supplements.

i also heard that water might be good for you too. but i'm not sure if it has been proven. joseph, can you plz find me an msnbc link regarding this?

[Hank Fist]

what are humans MEANT to be??

i don't believe humans are or were ever MEANT to be anything.

and to me, a vegetarian or vegan diet seems a logical part of our evolution. so i feel we're more MEANT to be leaning towards removing meat from our diets.

By meant, i meant physiologically. If our body can use digest it and use it in a positive manner, then we're meant to consume it. I'm not going to waste these wonderful enzymes my body has provided for me. I know this argument has already happened a hundred times here.
if it's cold and you need some hides on your back and some smoked meat in the gut, i'll be happy to provide. please give me some beans, squash, and corn if i'm hungry, maybe some hemp underwear or something. we will get along.

[Hank Fist]

i've heard about people trying to raise their cats vegan and how unhealthy the cat becomes.

yeah, retarded. Like that couple that tried to make their newborn vegan. They gave it juice. It died. They were not smart. But anyways, Humans aren't meant to be vegan. sorry.

that's a huge argument that neither of us are going to win.

and being vegan has VERY LITTLE with what we're "supposed" to be and more with how awful we have become.

please don't roll eyes at me. i'm curious about the average vegans diet. For some reason i think i'd eat a lot of bread and get fat.

[Varg]

ed is right. if we were all feral animals without all of the problems western civilization has caused us, you might find me next to you at the camp fire sharing some hunted boar.

but nowadays with dioxins and other chemicals in meat and dairy products that cause cancer and whatever else, we can't trust what we eat. being vegan is the healthiest and most compassionate choice.

adaptation dudes.

Another perfect example of your idiotic "I'm right, you're wrong. You vote for Bush, I live in a bush."


I am the healthiest person on this board and far more conscious of what goes in to my body than any of you. And unless there are any physiology/nutritional gurus here that I'm unaware of, I'm pretty confident in saying that I understand nutrition far better than any of you.

Some of the most unhealthy people I've met in my life are vegetarians. A vegetarian diet exhibits ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF REDUCED RISK OF CANCER. You are a moron plain and simple. I wouldn't doubt that you think taking multi-vitamins is considered healthy. For somebody who claims to NOT subscribe to fads and not be a "SHEEPLE" you've really goofed up on this. There are more nutritional fads in a year than there are clothing in a decade.

"Eat this...it reduces your chances of cancer"
Two months later: "Don't eat too much, It could cause prostate cancer!"

Last month it was Pomegranate. Actually, It probably still is...



Look no further than the case of the parents making their baby a vegetarian and KILLING it. The most obvious answer, is usually the right one.

[Smoking Guns]

Look no further than the case of the parents making their baby a vegetarian and KILLING it. The most obvious answer, is usually the right one.

what does this prove? other than the fact that you can't retain what you read? it was a VEGAN diet! heh heh heh.

also... just cuz these idiots were idiots and did idiotic things... this doesn't PROVE that all vegans are idiots. but then again... you're the guy who believes all murders are committed by illegal immigrants, all of whom are from mexico. and all other crimes are committed by THE BLACKS!!!

and i guess i'm not catching on, cuz i can't figure out what your OBVIOUS answer is. plz help!!!!

[Smoking Guns]

By meant, i meant physiologically. If our body can use digest it and use it in a positive manner, then we're meant to consume it. I'm not going to waste these wonderful enzymes my body has provided for me. I know this argument has already happened a hundred times here.
if it's cold and you need some hides on your back and some smoked meat in the gut, i'll be happy to provide. please give me some beans, squash, and corn if i'm hungry, maybe some hemp underwear or something. we will get along.

yup. i understand that we are able to eat meat, but for me personally, i feel that just cuz i'm able to do something, that doesn't mean i necessarily should. i don't NEED meat, so i don't eat it. where we are in america right now, and where we are headed, we could all remove animal products from our lives and live just as well as we do with them.

like stated before, it's a choice everyone has to make on their own. do you care about animals or not? that's pretty much all it comes down to.

but regardless, we will get along! you can share my hemp boxer-briefs anytime!

[moltar]

I have the biggest dick on this board. I'm tied with everyone else who isn't varg or a girl.

Can this discussion move on to something more productive such as maximizing a vegetarian weekly diet, ways to compensate for meat, or anything that doesn't involve throwing sources at each other?

Edit: I did not know dogs were omnivores. Queue the more you know!

[El Rhino]

Fact: My rabbit is not vegan. She eats yogurt drops. Yogurt is good for rabbits.

[ilikehorses]

ed is right. if we were all feral animals without all of the problems western civilization has caused us, you might find me next to you at the camp fire sharing some hunted boar.

but nowadays with dioxins and other chemicals in meat and dairy products that cause cancer and whatever else, we can't trust what we eat. being vegan is the healthiest and most compassionate choice.

adaptation dudes.

Another perfect example of your idiotic "I'm right, you're wrong. You vote for Bush, I live in a bush."


I am the healthiest person on this board and far more conscious of what goes in to my body than any of you. And unless there are any physiology/nutritional gurus here that I'm unaware of, I'm pretty confident in saying that I understand nutrition far better than any of you.

Some of the most unhealthy people I've met in my life are vegetarians. A vegetarian diet exhibits ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF OF REDUCED RISK OF CANCER. You are a moron plain and simple. I wouldn't doubt that you think taking multi-vitamins is considered healthy. For somebody who claims to NOT subscribe to fads and not be a "SHEEPLE" you've really goofed up on this. There are more nutritional fads in a year than there are clothing in a decade.

"Eat this...it reduces your chances of cancer"
Two months later: "Don't eat too much, It could cause prostate cancer!"

Last month it was Pomegranate. Actually, It probably still is...



Look no further than the case of the parents making their baby a vegetarian and KILLING it. The most obvious answer, is usually the right one.

BECAUSE TWO PEOPLE DID IT ALL PEOPLE DID IT.

actually, it's quite acknowledged that a high-meat diet (or average meat diet) puts individuals at GREAT risk for many kinds of cancer and osteoporosis, not to mention hypertension and many, many more diseases.

it is only recommended that a person ingest a very, very small amount of meat per day and week.

just because youre healthy now doesn't mean you won't be staring down the business end of colon cancer in a couple decades.

and again, and in caps so you all know i'm serious, VEGAN DIETS HAVE LESS TO DO ABOUT WHAT IS NATURAL AND MORE ABOUT OUR AWFUL SYSTEM OF ENSLAVEMENT AND TORTURE. humans in a jungle or wild plains might very well eat SOME meat (not a meat-exclusive diet or even meat-based diet). but we are not in a jungle, we are not on the wild plains. we are not wild animals.

[ilikehorses]

for more information on non-human animals in relation to human history, please read An Unnatural Order. it's very informative and insightful, but as dry as drinking a cup of sand.

[Varg]

BECAUSE TWO PEOPLE DID IT ALL PEOPLE DID IT.

actually, it's quite acknowledged that a high-meat diet (or average meat diet) puts individuals at GREAT risk for many kinds of cancer and osteoporosis, not to mention hypertension and many, many more diseases.

it is only recommended that a person ingest a very, very small amount of meat per day and week.

just because youre healthy now doesn't mean you won't be staring down the business end of colon cancer in a couple decades.

and again, and in caps so you all know i'm serious, VEGAN DIETS HAVE LESS TO DO ABOUT WHAT IS NATURAL AND MORE ABOUT OUR AWFUL SYSTEM OF ENSLAVEMENT AND TORTURE. humans in a jungle or wild plains might very well eat SOME meat (not a meat-exclusive diet or even meat-based diet). but we are not in a jungle, we are not on the wild plains. we are not wild animals.

Dude, who the fuck said anything about a high-meat diet? No argument here- Atkins is one of the worst "diets" available.

[creepykid]

i just made the most bomb ass vegan chili. i've also made a vegan southwest style casserole that was deeelicious. i think i've eaten the most varied diet since being vegan. i've even become less lazy and have home made lots of sweet shit like vegan potstickers....THEY ARE THE BOMB! my potstickers will own you. and dude there is this fake bbq riblets made by Gardenburger and they are the shit. seriously pick them up. i've seen them at Wal-Mart and at one of the hy-vees but i don't remember which one. if you are ever in minneapolis go to the evergreen thai restauraunt, they have awesome mock meats that will blow your mind. and no stupid retorts to mock meat and saying shit like "you obviously want meat" or "just eat the real thing, you can't deny eating meat" blah blah blah. i'm not here to tell you you're wrong for eating meat in anyway, but if you are really troubled as to what vegans and vegetarians eat these were a few examples of some great stuff!

[DARKBASS]

I can only say that.....

Life is simple....

humans insist on making it hard.....

people and domesticated animals have survived for a long time on many different types of diets......

(however I would hope that anyone who is the caretaker of a pet, would at very least consider veterinary advice, and do their own research(something besides a search on google))

just do what you want to do....

also realize that generally when people release scientific research or give health advice, they are trying to do one of two things......

help others

or make money off of others paranoia/fear......

[DARKBASS]

I am the healthiest person on this board and far more conscious of what goes in to my body than any of you.

How could you possibly know that?

[ilikehorses]

I am the healthiest person on this board and far more conscious of what goes in to my body than any of you.

How could you possibly know that?

he is.