515 Crew

[Varg]

http://www.latimes.com/news/printeditio ... 1309.story


The headline reads: Man accused in teen's slaying is in U.S. illegally

By David Zahniser, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 23, 2008
An alleged gang member accused of killing a 17-year-old high school student just one day after being released from jail has been living in the country illegally, possibly for more than a decade, federal immigration authorities said Saturday.







Interesting thought: do mexicans "migrate" to California, Texas, and Arizona in larger numbers than in New Mexico to avoid the irony? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit....

[Joe]

Only illegal immigrants can commit murder.

-Joe.

[El Rhino]

Only illegal immigrants can commit murder.

-Joe.

I think the whole point of this is that it was unnessecary and could've been prevented by making anything resembling a serious effort to control our borders and not essentially giving scumbags like this defacto citizenship by dumping them back within our borders after serving time in jail.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

[@nonymous]

I think the whole point of this is that it was unnessecary and could've been prevented by making anything resembling a serious effort to control our borders and not essentially giving scumbags like this defacto citizenship by dumping them back within our borders after serving time in jail.

any person legitimately wishing to solve a problem has to have the ability to see the situation from all angles to adequately and fairly arrive at a solution. however, i really don't know how i'm supposed to coexist with someone who truly believes that a person's origin has anything to do with their potential to commit a crime(you'll likely say that this is not what you mean and find a justification for your statement, but to me this is what you're saying).

controlling our borders isn't a solution to anything, in any way. crimes are committed for various reasons by people of all races, origins and economic backgrounds. the argument will be that, while what i'm saying is true, this particular incident could have been avoided if the criminal wouldn't have been allowed in the country in the first place. of course, this is absurd and could be applied when anything bad happens.

this is a good example of the irony of wanting to solve problems without actually addressing the root cause of them, in which we may or may not be responsible in the first place. we don't address these root problems because it would force us as a country, and ultimately as individuals, to examine our actions on a daily basis and determine how they affect others.

[Big Fat Retard]

I ain't tryin' to be funny or nuthin', but I seriously think we might as well make the U.S.A., Mexico, and Canada, one country. Putting up a fence at the border ain't gonna do nothin' to stop Mexican folks from gettin' here. All the white kids want to go to Vancouver for the KB, but they're too darn scared to bring anything back. Just making it all one country would be an economy boost like no other in the history of the planet. We'd all have money for whatever the fuck we want.

[xkristyx]

why arent you president?

[El Rhino]

however, i really don't know how i'm supposed to coexist with someone who truly believes that a person's origin has anything to do with their potential to commit a crime(you'll likely say that this is not what you mean and find a justification for your statement, but to me this is what you're saying).
.

Unlikely. While I agree with that statement, I didn't say it in this post though. I can't believe it's that hard for you to believe that certain races tend to commit crimes at a higher rate than others. I know most people here at 515 Crew are probably getting sick of these kinds of threads, but if you really want to discuss it, feel free to post any shred of evidence otherwise. I'll politely ask that you spare the usual counterpoints to such claims like "that's racist!", "that's absurd!" or "I can't believe you actually think that way", like that somehow makes me wrong. Should you choose to continue this conversation, I'll be glad to do it over PM to spare all the "OMG THIS THREAD IS SOOO BORING" posts. Here is fine too though.

Anyways, back on subject....

I really don't follow what you're trying to say. Don't get a big head and think it's because it's beyond my reach though. Let's see if I have it:

People of all races, economic backgrounds and origins commit crimes. No shit. So when someone is in our country illegally and commits a crime like this, should we say "Well, you know, rich white people sometimes kill people" and shrug it off? Is that what you're saying?

I said that if we controlled our borders this wouldn't have happened. Homeboy wouldn't have been in our country and wouldn't have killed that kid. That seems like a no-brainer to me. What's so absurd about that? It still sounds to me like a murder that could've been prevented and you haven't provided anything to make me thing otherwise.

The United States severely dropped the ball by allowing this guy into our country and not enforcing the laws meant to protect our citizens. Beyond that, we are in no way, shape or form responsible for this kid's murder. If you think otherwise, why don't you send a Hallmark card to this kid's parents with "Sorry to hear about the loss of your son. I guess that's what we get for economic imperialism. The chickens are comin' home to roost! - Sincerely, @dam"

[Joe]

I can't believe it's that hard for you to believe that certain races tend to commit crimes at a higher rate than others.

You're a fucking idiot, shut the fuck up.

-Joe.

[Varg]

any person legitimately wishing to solve a problem has to have the ability to see the situation from all angles to adequately and fairly arrive at a solution. however, i really don't know how i'm supposed to coexist with someone who truly believes that a person's origin has anything to do with their potential to commit a crime(you'll likely say that this is not what you mean and find a justification for your statement, but to me this is what you're saying).

controlling our borders isn't a solution to anything, in any way. crimes are committed for various reasons by people of all races, origins and economic backgrounds. the argument will be that, while what i'm saying is true, this particular incident could have been avoided if the criminal wouldn't have been allowed in the country in the first place. of course, this is absurd and could be applied when anything bad happens.

this is a good example of the irony of wanting to solve problems without actually addressing the root cause of them, in which we may or may not be responsible in the first place. we don't address these root problems because it would force us as a country, and ultimately as individuals, to examine our actions on a daily basis and determine how they affect others.

Nobody said anything to the effect of "he's FROM mexico, he's bound to commit murder." or as you so eloquently put it "...person's origin has anything to do with their potential to commit a crime"

The main idea here, which you missed *surprise, surprise* is that he entered the country ILLEGALLY. That is a crime. A person who commits crime, is in fact, believe it or not, very likely to commit MORE crime. Where this person came from had no bearing on whether or not I would post the story. The idea , again, is that it was someone who was here illegally- became incarcerated (at which point we KNEW he was here illegally)- but allowed back onto the streets regardless of our laws that are currently in place. The root cause of the problem is indeterminable as far as I can see. I can only narrow it down to a few:
1) HE is to blame for his own actions- (you disagree)
2) He is this way because his parents failed to do their job (I'm going to assume you also disagree with this)
3) The mexican government has failed to do its job- in a variety of different ways.

I ain't tryin' to be funny or nuthin', but I seriously think we might as well make the U.S.A., Mexico, and Canada, one country. Putting up a fence at the border ain't gonna do nothin' to stop Mexican folks from gettin' here. All the white kids want to go to Vancouver for the KB, but they're too darn scared to bring anything back. Just making it all one country would be an economy boost like no other in the history of the planet. We'd all have money for whatever the fuck we want.

Then what do you propose to do about the situation on the southern mexican border? There are people from South America crossing into mexico illegally down there and mexico has gone as far as to send troops to THAT border to keep them out. You think if we became "unified" that South America wouldn't be clamoring to be part of it as well? That's a slippery slope my bigfatretarded friend.

I don't think you understand how economy works. Or how nations EXIST and/or THRIVE.

[El Rhino]

I can't believe it's that hard for you to believe that certain races tend to commit crimes at a higher rate than others.

You're a fucking idiot, shut the fuck up.

-Joe.

Eat a dick, nerd.

[joseph]

Only illegal immigrants can commit murder.

-Joe.

am i the only one that thought this was a joke?

[Smoking Guns]

Only illegal immigrants can commit murder.

-Joe.

am i the only one that thought this was a joke?

no this is a new law they are trying to pass.

[Smoking Guns]

ps- i heard some shit on 1040am today. jan michaelson or whatever his name is was stating that he thought churches should turn in all of their illegal parishioners, and that e.s.l. classes should turn in all of their illegal students.

and everyone who called in to his show just backed him without anybody ever stating valid reasons. do people really believe this???

[El Rhino]

ps- i heard some shit on 1040am today. jan michaelson or whatever his name is was stating that he thought churches should turn in all of their illegal parishioners, and that e.s.l. classes should turn in all of their illegal students.

and everyone who called in to his show just backed him without anybody ever stating valid reasons. do people really believe this???

The valid reason is that they're here illegally. Until the laws change that make our borders legally completely open, we as American citizens have the right to demand that the laws get enforced for our protection.

Jan Michaelson is basically just a rabble-rouser and saying shit to get things stirred up. That's kind of how AM radio works.

As far as the church goes, it kind of goes against their philosophy. I wouldn't expect them to. For ESL classes, I don't know how they would know their status. If it's a federally funded program, I don't think they should allow them in the class in the first place.

[@nonymous]

People of all races, economic backgrounds and origins commit crimes. No shit. So when someone is in our country illegally and commits a crime like this, should we say "Well, you know, rich white people sometimes kill people" and shrug it off? Is that what you're saying?

I said that if we controlled our borders this wouldn't have happened. Homeboy wouldn't have been in our country and wouldn't have killed that kid. That seems like a no-brainer to me. What's so absurd about that? It still sounds to me like a murder that could've been prevented and you haven't provided anything to make me thing otherwise.

there is a gaping hole in what you're saying here. which are you upset over, the murder or the fact that he was here illegally? you can't have both because they have nothing to do with each other. him being here illegally had nothing to do with whether or not he commits a crime; that's my point, and that's what you keep dismissing.

your suggestion demonizes an entire race of people based on this individual's crime--a crime committed everyday by many of our own citizens.

if you want to talk about immigration reform because you're just that much of a stickler for upholding the law--no matter how absurd it is--then i can accept that. but don't try and chalk it up to being a preventative measure for our safety because that does imply that crimes are based on where you're from or what color your skin is.

i think you mean well and truly think this will keep us safer, but it's honestly like putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound. treating the rest of the world like absolute garbage and then closing the borders and hoping for the best is not a solution--unless your solution involves people flying planes into our buildings.

[@nonymous]

The main idea here, which you missed *surprise, surprise* is that he entered the country ILLEGALLY. That is a crime.

i didn't miss anything. i don't recognize laws that make no sense to me, and if you were in the right situation you wouldn't either. the reason you are so arrogant is because you are privileged enough to be that way--which is probably why you don't care about other people.

i'll have this discussion with ryan, but i honestly have no further interest in discussing anything with you. you're just too stupid. feel free to respond to my posts though if that makes you feel like you've made a point.

[Hank Fist]

legalize pot.

[@nonymous]

legalize pot.

thank you!

[joseph]

i don't recognize laws that make no sense to me.

legalize pot.

[Hank Fist]

i don't recognize laws that make no sense to me.

legalize pot.

really? it makes so much sense.
1. we get rid of shitty mexican schwag.
2. we get rid of shitty mexican criminals coming up here (although they'd probably find something else.)
3. we get rid of paying for shitty mexican criminals in our jails over weed.
a. we'd stop paying for 10,000's of americans in jail over weed.
4. we'd spend our money on something else.
5. economy magically fixed.

[joseph]

i don't recognize laws that make no sense to me.

legalize pot.

really? it makes so much sense.
1. we get rid of shitty mexican schwag.
2. we get rid of shitty mexican criminals coming up here (although they'd probably find something else.)
3. we get rid of paying for shitty mexican criminals in our jails over weed.
a. we'd stop paying for 10,000's of americans in jail over weed.
4. we'd spend our money on something else.
5. economy magically fixed.

@ agrees with you.

[El Rhino]

i don't recognize laws that make no sense to me.

legalize pot.

really? it makes so much sense.
1. we get rid of shitty mexican schwag.
2. we get rid of shitty mexican criminals coming up here (although they'd probably find something else.)
3. we get rid of paying for shitty mexican criminals in our jails over weed.
a. we'd stop paying for 10,000's of americans in jail over weed.
4. we'd spend our money on something else.
5. economy magically fixed.

6. Johnny Reeferseed and Afroman would have to re-invent themselves as weed wouldn't be worth singing about anymore.

[Smoking Guns]

ps- i heard some shit on 1040am today. jan michaelson or whatever his name is was stating that he thought churches should turn in all of their illegal parishioners, and that e.s.l. classes should turn in all of their illegal students.

and everyone who called in to his show just backed him without anybody ever stating valid reasons. do people really believe this???

The valid reason is that they're here illegally. Until the laws change that make our borders legally completely open, we as American citizens have the right to demand that the laws get enforced for our protection.

Jan Michaelson is basically just a rabble-rouser and saying shit to get things stirred up. That's kind of how AM radio works.

As far as the church goes, it kind of goes against their philosophy. I wouldn't expect them to. For ESL classes, I don't know how they would know their status. If it's a federally funded program, I don't think they should allow them in the class in the first place.

yeah. jan is a douchebag. and most of the stuff he says is just ignorant and wrong. i really wonder if he actually believes anything he talks about.

anyway... yeah... they're here illegally, but should it really be the responsibility of pastors/priests/etc. to find out who in their congregations are illegally frequenting their churchs? or up to the teacher to find out which students have illegal parents? wouldn't that be like saying the cashier at walmart can't sell anything to an illegal immigrant, and must report all that they encounter? or... a doctor can't treat an illegal immigrant?

also... the kids in the esl classes that might be illegals didn't have a choice in becoming illegal in the first place, so should they be punished by not receiving an education?

[El Rhino]

If Wal-Mart couldn't sell merchandise to illegal immigrants, I'd imagine the SE 14th Wally World would be a ghost town.

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that priests turn in illegal immigrants. Like I said, the whole point of Jan Michaelson is that he gets your blood boiling, either because you don't agree with what he says or he gets you worked up about some issue or another. I don't think any reasonable person would expect the church to turn over illegals from their flock, it kind of goes against the whole doctrine. There have been cases of American Catholics getting fed up with illegals coming to their churches and changing the make-up of the church while not throwing anything in the collection plate. Honestly, I think you're stewing over something like someone saying "let's just nuke the whole place" when talking about the middle east. Just a stupid comment not really meant to be taken that seriously.

As far as the children of illegal immigrants go, I wish it didn't even get to that point where we have to figure out what to do with the children. If we could control our border, it wouldn't be an issue we have to worry about and instead of trying to teach children from another country English, we could be focusing on our own children.

[DARKBASS]

I agreed with the current President about what to do with the border, unfortunately the rest of the Government did not.

[ilikehorses]

the immigration is a huge problem. not for the reasons that Varg would like to say.. it's a problem because it's hurting central america's and our economy. it's destroying families. it's created a lot of crime (not necessarily the crime Varg would like to point out, but yes, even that crime). it's caused a lot of deaths. it's hurt our and central america's workers and work force. it's pitting people against other people, all of whom are just trying to survive.

i've pointed out lots of times Enrique's Journey. fucking read it.

[El Rhino]

I'll read "Enrique's Journey" if you read "State of Emergency: The Third World Conquest of America" by Patrick J. Buchanan.

[ilikehorses]

I'll read "Enrique's Journey" if you read "State of Emergency: The Third World Conquest of America" by Patrick J. Buchanan.

Enrique's Journey is not some soft liberal reading. it doesn't paint Enrique as a wonderful person. it's just shows the lengths and trials that workers and children go through to get here and how horrible it is for their families and their communities. and at the end, it has a short, but wonderful explanation about immigration problems.

[Big Fat Retard]

why arent you president?

That's a question I ask myself everyday.

[Big Fat Retard]

6. Johnny Reeferseed and Afroman would have to re-invent themselves as weed wouldn't be worth singing about anymore.

We'd have to sing about bangin' fat chicks instead.