515 Crew

@nonymous · Post by **@nonymous** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:18 pm

this is an interesting article and a brief look into some of the problems that are overlooked by the media regarding school shootings:

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.p ... 7091802599

Tampa Josh · Post by **Tampa Josh** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:56 pm

Oh, an article from an anarchist "news" site. I'll be sure to take that seriously.

robdigi · Post by **robdigi** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:41 pm

It actually makes some good points, and isn't so much a news article as an opinion piece.

Still, I don't agree with what the author was ultimately getting at- yes, the killer went to a crappy school and was on a fast track to nowhere. It was also his choice. He killed and wounded those people because he was a sociopath and somehow mentally imbalanced. It's not that the environment causes normal people to go crazy, it's that crazy people react to these environments in unpredictable and senseless ways. It seems as if the article is trying to blame the environment, and that's a cop-out... even worse than "he stopped taking his meds".

We all deal with the petty inconveniences of modern life, but we don't decide that murdering people is the answer. It takes a complete lack of feeling and empathy to go on a premeditated killing spree. The environment may have brought that out sooner rather than later, but you can't say that the environment created the monster. If he felt that he was stuck in a "flat sort of American hell", he should of gotten out of there. He was a successful student and seemed to have it together in a general sense- it's not hard to split for the coasts or follow whatever dreams you may have. It's a lot easier than rationalizing mass murder. Unless you are a sociopath... which is the ultimate root cause.

Now, this isn't the same sort of situation as a high school shooting, or a workplace shooting. In fact, one high school shooting is nothing like another high school shooting. These are all very different incidents with very unique and individual causes- if you try to correlate them, you are merely falling into the news media's trap. This is a whole other issue: the news media pointing out nonexistent trends and epidemics out of disparate and rare incidents, albeit incidents that elicit an extreme emotional response.

To try and blame one thing or another for an unstable individual's actions is naive and lazy.

ilikehorses · Post by **ilikehorses** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:42 pm

Tampa Josh wrote:Oh, an article from an anarchist "news" site. I'll be sure to take that seriously.

your face.

@nonymous · Post by **@nonymous** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:00 am

Tampa Josh wrote:Oh, an article from an anarchist "news" site. I'll be sure to take that seriously.

except, as it clearly states, the article was written for alternet, a highly reputable alternative news source and was merely reposted on infoshop.org's newswire. please limit your posts to herb-related issues if you lack the ability to research what you're saying.

robdigi wrote:yes, the killer went to a crappy school and was on a fast track to nowhere. It was also his choice. He killed and wounded those people because he was a sociopath and somehow mentally imbalanced. It's not that the environment causes normal people to go crazy, it's that crazy people react to these environments in unpredictable and senseless ways...

i'm not about to suggest why this guy did what he did, though i do think it's important to think about the points this author touched on. going to a crappy school clearly wasn't the killer's sole motivation, however it's pretty impossible to know how a combination of socio-economic structures that make up our environments will affect us or how we will react to them. i feel like it's also dangerous to juxtapose "normal" people vs. "crazy" people. human beings simply cannot be that easily divided up, no matter how hard our culture tries.

all of us are capable of doing things we can't imagine in the present, given our circumstances. sometimes "normal" people just snap. the cause is debatable but blaming it on someone being crazy or a sociopath is just as naive and lazy in my opinion--which i believe was the author's main argument.

Thom · Post by **Thom** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:18 am

@nonymous wrote:
Tampa Josh wrote:Oh, an article from an anarchist "news" site. I'll be sure to take that seriously.
except, as it clearly states, the article was written for alternet, a highly reputable alternative news source and was merely reposted on infoshop.org's newswire. please limit your posts to herb-related issues if you lack the ability to research what you're saying.

robdigi wrote:yes, the killer went to a crappy school and was on a fast track to nowhere. It was also his choice. He killed and wounded those people because he was a sociopath and somehow mentally imbalanced. It's not that the environment causes normal people to go crazy, it's that crazy people react to these environments in unpredictable and senseless ways...
i'm not about to suggest why this guy did what he did, though i do think it's important to think about the points this author touched on. going to a crappy school clearly wasn't the killer's sole motivation, however it's pretty impossible to know how a combination of socio-economic structures that make up our environments will affect us or how we will react to them. i feel like it's also dangerous to juxtapose "normal" people vs. "crazy" people. human beings simply cannot be that easily divided up, no matter how hard our culture tries.

all of us are capable of doing things we can't imagine in the present, given our circumstances. sometimes "normal" people just snap. the cause is debatable but blaming it on someone being crazy or a sociopath is just as naive and lazy in my opinion--which i believe was the author's main argument.

Absolutely amazing. So what you are saying is that people lack the will to control their own lives? You expect me to swallow some bullshit about how my environment will make me into some mindless killer? You're saying that people who are placed in lower class education systems are more likely to murder other people? So what...you're basically saying that poor people are doomed to kill each other.

Good call.

Bullet Tooth · Post by **Bullet Tooth** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:48 am

Thom wrote:
@nonymous wrote:
Tampa Josh wrote:Oh, an article from an anarchist "news" site. I'll be sure to take that seriously.
except, as it clearly states, the article was written for alternet, a highly reputable alternative news source and was merely reposted on infoshop.org's newswire. please limit your posts to herb-related issues if you lack the ability to research what you're saying.

robdigi wrote:yes, the killer went to a crappy school and was on a fast track to nowhere. It was also his choice. He killed and wounded those people because he was a sociopath and somehow mentally imbalanced. It's not that the environment causes normal people to go crazy, it's that crazy people react to these environments in unpredictable and senseless ways...
i'm not about to suggest why this guy did what he did, though i do think it's important to think about the points this author touched on. going to a crappy school clearly wasn't the killer's sole motivation, however it's pretty impossible to know how a combination of socio-economic structures that make up our environments will affect us or how we will react to them. i feel like it's also dangerous to juxtapose "normal" people vs. "crazy" people. human beings simply cannot be that easily divided up, no matter how hard our culture tries.

all of us are capable of doing things we can't imagine in the present, given our circumstances. sometimes "normal" people just snap. the cause is debatable but blaming it on someone being crazy or a sociopath is just as naive and lazy in my opinion--which i believe was the author's main argument.
Absolutely amazing. So what you are saying is that people lack the will to control their own lives? You expect me to swallow some bullshit about how my environment will make me into some mindless killer? You're saying that people who are placed in lower class education systems are more likely to murder other people? So what...you're basically saying that poor people are doomed to kill each other.

Good call.

x2

robdigi · Post by **robdigi** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:14 am

Sure, there are different levels of crazy (yes, I know that is a crappy term, but I can't write pretentiously ALL the time) that we can all fit into. It is not black and white, and there is no true standard for "normal".

That said, I believe there is a line to be drawn between those who can kill indiscriminately and those who possess empathy and compassion (or, that which most separates us as humans from the rest of the animal kingdom). It's not a "normal" person who snaps and kills randomly. A "normal" person may snap and kill another who has wronged them in the name of revenge, or self-defense. One who snaps and plots to kill for the sake of killing without reason is a person who has serious psychological problems. You can talk all you want about the environment, but no matter what that environment may be one would never turn to that kind of violence without a deep-rooted psychological issue.

@nonymous · Post by **@nonymous** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:33 am

thom wrote:Absolutely amazing. So what you are saying is that people lack the will to control their own lives? You expect me to swallow some bullshit about how my environment will make me into some mindless killer? You're saying that people who are placed in lower class education systems are more likely to murder other people? So what...you're basically saying that poor people are doomed to kill each other.

Good call.

i didn't say he lacked the will to control his own life--but that was a nice bill o'reilly rebuttal . peoples' decisions are influenced by their environments, their interactions with the world and others. this is not limited to their financial status or geographic location(though those can be factors). in reality, there are listless cultural effects that can shape one's actions. the point of this article is to get people to at least take those into consideration when these things happen rather than deeming someone "evil" or "crazy", which is not only alienating but absurd.

we rarely look outside our own culture for insight, but you don't have to look far to see that countries and other cultures simply do not deal with these types of incidents on the level we do. to say that it is an individual problem and is not influenced by something bigger is ridiculous.

@nonymous · Post by **@nonymous** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:59 am

robdigi wrote:A "normal" person may snap and kill another who has wronged them in the name of revenge, or self-defense. One who snaps and plots to kill for the sake of killing without reason is a person who has serious psychological problems. You can talk all you want about the environment, but no matter what that environment may be one would never turn to that kind of violence without a deep-rooted psychological issue.

absolutely. i'm not suggesting that the environment is directly responsible for the incident but that it can influence who the person is. this dude obviously had psychological issues, im not debating that. the root however, isn't that he is crazy. the root likely deals with environments and situations that brought him to this state. the author is suggesting that it might behoove us to look into some of these to find out what is driving people to commit these acts. as much as i am not a fan of a lot of his work, bowling for columbine scratches the surface of this.

TooManyHumyns · Post by **TooManyHumyns** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:35 pm

ive been thinking about it lately, and i regret not killing some of the kids i went to high school with...seriously some fucked up people went to my school...they totally deserved to die...many of em' went into the marines i guess...and i hear many of em' are overseas...to tell you the truth i hope they don't come back...no joke...

people are responsible for their actions...and ones environment is directly responsible to their actions...this could be said about so many different issues...for instance...why are you vegan thom? because something from your social environment is influencing you to do so...straight edge as well...some people get sick of what they go through in high school, whether they are the dumb emo-goth kid who hates everything for whatever reason, or the spoiled rich kid who is living up to his parents expectations and in turn living a lie...who knows why this kid was depressed or what was triggering it...his family was not poor and he was a really good students and was into academics...so in the end i guess it comes to making a choice...dealing with it and realizing that high school sucks buts its only 4 years out of your life, or you can shoot up the school and then yourself...he did what he did for a reason...enough said...even if its not justifiable to alot of the people on this board, it was to him...and thats what life is all about...so yes, your environment does influence your behavior.....yup

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:49 pm

TooManyHumyns wrote: people are responsible for their actions...and ones environment is directly responsible to their actions...this could be said about so many different issues...for instance...why are you vegan thom? because something from your social environment is influencing you to do so...straight edge as well...some people get sick of what they go through in high school, whether they are the dumb emo-goth kid who hates everything for whatever reason, or the spoiled rich kid who is living up to his parents expectations and in turn living a lie...who knows why this kid was depressed or what was triggering it...his family was not poor and he was a really good students and was into academics...so in the end i guess it comes to making a choice...dealing with it and realizing that high school sucks buts its only 4 years out of your life, or you can shoot up the school and then yourself...he did what he did for a reason...enough said...even if its not justifiable to alot of the people on this board, it was to him...and thats what life is all about...so yes, your environment does influence your behavior.....yup

x2

-Joe.

jesse p · Post by **jesse p** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:10 pm

its amazing how i barely saw any news coverage of this. funny how if this had been an Middle Eastern kid instead of a white kid doing the shooting, it would have been everywhere you looked.

El Rhino · Post by **El Rhino** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:14 pm

TooManyHumyns wrote:many of em' went into the marines i guess...and i hear many of em' are overseas...to tell you the truth i hope they don't come back...no joke...

Fuck you. Not even funny.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:24 pm

El Rhino wrote:
TooManyHumyns wrote:many of em' went into the marines i guess...and i hear many of em' are overseas...to tell you the truth i hope they don't come back...no joke...

Fuck you. Not even funny.

I don't think this has anything to do with the marines.
It has to do with said people being shitty people.

-Joe.

Thom · Post by **Thom** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:37 pm

@nonymous wrote: i didn't say he lacked the will to control his own life--but that was a nice bill o'reilly rebuttal . peoples' decisions are influenced by their environments, their interactions with the world and others. this is not limited to their financial status or geographic location(though those can be factors). in reality, there are listless cultural effects that can shape one's actions. the point of this article is to get people to at least take those into consideration when these things happen rather than deeming someone "evil" or "crazy", which is not only alienating but absurd.

we rarely look outside our own culture for insight, but you don't have to look far to see that countries and other cultures simply do not deal with these types of incidents on the level we do. to say that it is an individual problem and is not influenced by something bigger is ridiculous.

Me frat boy, me no readie or typey good.

lets got fuck some chicks!

TooManyHumyns wrote:some people get sick of what they go through in high school, whether they are the dumb emo-goth kid who hates everything for whatever reason, or the spoiled rich kid who is living up to his parents expectations and in turn living a lie...

I really hope you aren't call me either of these things. I would assume that is not your intention. However, I do understand mostly your point. Yes environments do effect people, however robdigi stated my basic point in less inflammatory words. I believe some people are hardwired like this from the beginning.

I was picked on a lot in school, and as a result sometimes have a hard time making friends in my contemporary life. This is a product of my environment. I did not ever consider the option of killing masses of people.

TooManyHumyns · Post by **TooManyHumyns** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:21 pm

El Rhino wrote:
TooManyHumyns wrote:many of em' went into the marines i guess...and i hear many of em' are overseas...to tell you the truth i hope they don't come back...no joke...

Fuck you. Not even funny.

you misinterpreted that...i wish those people would die anyways...despite the fact they are marines...not because they are marines...they are just shitty people..seriously having animal carcasses on your doorstep regularly gets old...shitty racist kids driving around the parking lot with nooses on the back of their trucks with deer/foxes attached to the nooses, dragging their live bodies around until they break into pieces is fucked up...and not funny...2 of many examples...same people every time...seriously fuckers deserve to die...and if they die in battle...they wont get my remorse, thats for damned sure

TooManyHumyns · Post by **TooManyHumyns** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:22 pm

Thom wrote:
I was picked on a lot in school, and as a result sometimes have a hard time making friends in my contemporary life. This is a product of my environment. I did not ever consider the option of killing masses of people.

like i said...some people do

TooManyHumyns · Post by **TooManyHumyns** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:24 pm

Joe wrote:
El Rhino wrote:
TooManyHumyns wrote:many of em' went into the marines i guess...and i hear many of em' are overseas...to tell you the truth i hope they don't come back...no joke...

Fuck you. Not even funny.
I don't think this has anything to do with the marines.
It has to do with said people being shitty people.

-Joe.

i didn't really intend to relate shitty people to being marines...i was just leading to my hopes of them dying...they just happened to go into the marines...

inx515xhell · Post by **inx515xhell** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:57 pm

i went to the same high school as james, and can vouch for all the fucked up shit that went on there.
i srsly can't wait for the day i catch bobby taylor out downtown somewhere.

El Rhino · Post by **El Rhino** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:37 pm

What fucking high school did you guys go to???

TooManyHumyns · Post by **TooManyHumyns** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:47 pm

dallas center-grimes dawg...seriously...shitty people

Hank Fist · Post by **Hank Fist** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:55 am

this dude was a whiner. People need to learn how to kill themselves with some kind of honor again.

robdigi · Post by **robdigi** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:39 am

Hank Fist · Post by **Hank Fist** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:48 pm

Precisely, Rob, precisely.
People need to get over the thought that they need to deserve to die to kill themselves. Just do it, pussies.

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