515 Crew

[joseph]

weird interesting article

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... down/7904/

[El Rhino]

It's definitely a good thing. The more people buying organics, the better, regardless of Wal-Mart's motives. I don't see any problem with making better quality and more environmentally friendly* foods available to the masses.



* sometimes organics come from further away and use more fossil fuels in transport so they're not ALWAYS a better choice environment-wise.

[Nam]

but will it still say "made in mexico"?

[TooManyHumyns]

no, apparently most of their organic goods come from...surprise! china...the problem that would be brought up is this: under all those trade agreements floating around the world, companies set their own standards... china/mexicos 'organic' produce would fall far short from american standards, they dont sell usda certified organic, but they can still call it organic, because according to va-chinas standards it is...supposedly, china still uses certain chemical agent pesitcides and whatnot on their organic food...also, its sooo disgusting polluted with smog over there, i bet that alone would take the organic certification away...whatevs....blahblahblah...im sure you can find all sorts of info on hte web...or on wakeupwalmart.com...

[TooManyHumyns]

apparently the usda label is on produce now...im sure there is still an arguement and questions about it though...if it is fully legit, i consider it a good thing...i honestly think organic food, and 'green products' should be the norm...and crazy chemical agents in food and goods should cost more...

[TooManyHumyns]

i consider it a good thing aside from the impact that it will have on local organic farmers in the states...as this is whats wrong with our country economically...we import almost everything, and have almost nothing left to offer the world...whoops.

[Joey Chaos]

Here's a funny quote from wakeupwalmart.com

Wal-Mart Associates don’t earn enough to support a family

* The national median family budget for a family of four (two parents and two children) in 2005 was $39,984, more than twice the average full-time Associate’s annual income of $19,165. [Sylvia A. Allegretto, Basic family budgets: Working families' incomes often fail to meet living expenses around the U.S 2005]

Wal-Mart wages are not designed to support a family

So, if one Wal Mart associates average yearly wage is $19,165 a year, and the family budget for a family of four is $39,984, that'd put them pretty fucking close, unless one of the adults in said family of four didn't work.

If both providers were Wal Mart associates, they would make $38,330. While that's not quite the estimated budget, I'm sure they'd be alright.

Do you guys not read this shit before you post it?


I realize that whomever wrote that on the site proved their point much better by comparing the needed budget to the income of one Wal Mart associate, but c'mon, atleast try and make the shit believable.

[TooManyHumyns]

i wasnt using 'wake up walmart' as a 'hey, this site really tells it like it is' just as an almost sarcastic reference...as they patrol walmart specifically to try and find everything they do that is unethical...i havent looked at the site since it was 16.

[El Rhino]

i consider it a good thing aside from the impact that it will have on local organic farmers in the states...

...like exponentially expanding their market to sell their crops.


I couldn't find anything right off the bat on that wake up Wal-Mart site about organics but I do know that for a product to have the USDA certification to be organic, there's some strict criteria the product has to meet - there's no gray area. It's either really organic or it's not.



I understand not liking Wal-Mart and all but I think objections to them getting into the organic business are pretty much rooted in snobbery. While there are certainly good reasons for choosing organics, there's also a bit of status that goes with it. Said status goes out the window when a lower-middle class family that enjoys football, shows on FOX and voting Republican can get access/afford the same shit.

[maxxwell]

Food Inc talks about this. Its pretty neat, people are saying how this guy and organisation are traitors working on getting organic food into walmart.

i think is great, makes it easier and more affordable...and can get these companies better ability and resources to keep going.

[ilikehorses]

* sometimes organics come from further away and use more fossil fuels in transport so they're not ALWAYS a better choice environment-wise.

that's the only real problem i have with it. that and China's lax organic standards. i know they say they meet USDA's standards, but just from what i've looked into, the Chinese companies are often allowed to monitor their own company / plants. the USDA / US never really check into their production methods or what they are using. so maybe it's organic, maybe it's not.

[@nonymous]

couple of good articles on the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/opinion/14sun4.html and http://pollan.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/05 ... -bad-news/

older articles, but still relevant.

choice quotes:

But here are the pitfalls. Wal-Mart will now become the 800-pound gorilla among the other, slightly smaller gorillas that have tried repeatedly to weaken the Agriculture Department's definition of what organic means. There is no chance that Wal-Mart will be buying from small, local organic farmers. Instead, its market influence will speed up the rate at which organic farming comes to resemble conventional farming in scale, mechanization, processing and transportation. For many people, this is the very antithesis of what organic should be.

The industrial food chain, whether organic or conventional, inevitably links giant supermarkets to giant farms. But this is not because big farms are any more efficient or productive than small farms — to the contrary. Studies have found that small farms produce more food per unit of land than big farms do). And polycultures are more productive than monocultures. So why don’t such farms predominate? Because big supermarkets prefer to do business with big farms growing lots of the same thing. It is more efficient for Wal-Mart — in the economic, not the biological, sense — to contract with a single huge carrot or chicken grower than with 10 small ones: the “transaction costs” are lower, even if the price and the quality is no different. This is just one of the many ways in which the logic of capitalism and the logic of biology on a farm come into conflict. At least in the short term, the logic of business usually prevails.

Wal-Mart’s big-foot entry into the organic market is bad news for small organic farmers, that seems obvious enough. But it may also spell trouble for the big growers they’ll favor. Wal-Mart has a reputation for driving down prices by squeezing its suppliers, especially after the suppliers have invested in expanding production to feed the Wal-Mart maw. Once you’ve boosted your production to supply Wal-Mart, you’re at the company’s mercy when it decides it no longer wants to give you a price that will cover the cost of production, let alone enable you to make a profit. When that happens, the notion of responsibly priced food will be sacrificed to the need to survive, and the pressure to cut corners will become irresistible.

[@nonymous]

also: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... han=search

[El Rhino]

There is no chance that Wal-Mart will be buying from small, local organic farmers. Instead, its market influence will speed up the rate at which organic farming comes to resemble conventional farming in scale, mechanization, processing and transportation. For many people, this is the very antithesis of what organic should be.

[/quote]


So potentially making the organic industry more efficient is a bad thing? Hmmm.




Also, Eddie, does it actually say anywhere that Wal-Mart's organics come from China? I don't think I've ever been anywhere and saw a "product of China" stamp on produce, let alone anything organic. I wouldn't trust anything from China as by all accounts, it's a filthy and disgusting country.

[Nam]

i cant imagine shipping produce from china would be cost effective or benificial nomatter how anti america walmart is

[Shane]

When a huge amount of it is shipped a long distance, it is cheaper than shipping several smaller amounts a shorter distance.