515 Crew

[inx515xhell]

CUZ VICTORY IS TOTALLY A LEGIT LABEL NOWADAYS!

[BIll]

CUZ VICTORY IS TOTALLY A LEGIT LABEL NOWADAYS!

They have TV commercials proclaiming "Mainstream music is dead/support underground music".

Made me giggle like it was 1996.

[lukerauch]

i think its funny when bands like that get some huge fucking deal after NO touring at all. sure they might have opened up for the Kottonmouth Kings or somethin a few times..they just do a bunch of blow and record some butt-rock album and call it a night.

[Nick]

Destrophy has been around forever it seems. They have and always will be awful. I was almost floored when I found out they were signed to victory. I guess I just don't understand.

But wasn't Nickelback on Victory too at one point? They have always had shit bands.

EDIT: Nevermind...got them confused with another shitty label: Roadrunner.

[inx515xhell]

like victory, roadrunner/roadracer used to be legit.

[El Rhino]

I remember the old Roadrunner catalogs used to be pretty sweet with all the NYHC stuff they had. I haven't cared for Victory since they dropped OLC.

[joseph]

I think Joey's band Muddrerdolls should beat these guys up for stealing their clothes and awful influences.

i gotta give you credit for this one.


victory/roadrunner/metal blade/revelation all used to be labels that i had to pay attention to. now mostly garbage theres very few labels that are worth looking at based on name.

[Beaver]

Oh man. That band is BULLSHIT. Their drummer is a major fag. I saw him over the summer with his sweet faux quaf and mesh cut off shirt telling some people he just came from a photo shoot. I laughed really loud and he gave me a mean mug. He was constantly flexin his arms too. extra lol. I saw this dude almost get his ass kicked multiple time at Mary's. The singer is a fag too. ALWAYS posing.

EDIT: THis GUY! Haha

i think i said this before but i was with this guy in jail. he was in there for beating his wife.

She must have forgotten to pick up more "Bed Head" at Wal-Mart.

[Walking Thunder]

Does this up-and-rising band have anything to do with The Envy Corps? Possibly a goth side-project or something?

[DaVo]

i think its funny when bands like that get some huge fucking deal after NO touring at all. sure they might have opened up for the Kottonmouth Kings or somethin a few times..they just do a bunch of blow and record some butt-rock album and call it a night.

Touring and opening up for larger acts won't get you signed. It's a great deal more about who you know and how much you want to be a business instead of a band. It's all about having the marketing and business plan in order.

[DaVo]

I think Joey's band Muddrerdolls should beat these guys up for stealing their clothes and awful influences.

i gotta give you credit for this one.


victory/roadrunner/metal blade/revelation all used to be labels that i had to pay attention to. now mostly garbage theres very few labels that are worth looking at based on name.

In that list, I think Victory is the only one that is still independent but has avoided being bought out by boarding the type of music the label released. I guess instead of selling the label, Tony Victory sold out and diversified. Really I have to say it was a smart move on his part but signing shitty bands isn't going to keep the label going.

All of the others are a label division of a label division of a major label. Most were bought for their back catalog and their top selling acts.

[Varg]

i think its funny when bands like that get some huge fucking deal after NO touring at all. sure they might have opened up for the Kottonmouth Kings or somethin a few times..they just do a bunch of blow and record some butt-rock album and call it a night.

Touring and opening up for larger acts won't get you signed. It's a great deal more about who you know and how much you want to be a business instead of a band. It's all about having the marketing and business plan in order.

Ohhhhhh ho ho, and you'd know all about this wouldn't you? Here's an update grandpa, since you've been out of the game for awhile- Not all labels are run the same way.
Here's another startling piece of information: 95% of SIGNED bands (to these types of labels) don't have marketing or business plans and it's unlikely they ever will.
Want more?: the last few bands I've seen get signed- didn't know anyone at a label. dun Dun DUN!

Now what?

[Beaver]

Oh crap. I smell a 515crew outing......

Friday 10/23 @ HOB:
Fangs for Nothing Clothing presents:
"ZOMBIE PROM"
The Albino Spiders
Grave Corps
SUPERCHIEF
The Horseshoe Spatulas


"Monster Bomb Party"
Free samples of Monster energy drink and Smirnoff bombs! 9:30pm

$6 or $10 per couple

[DaVo]

i think its funny when bands like that get some huge fucking deal after NO touring at all. sure they might have opened up for the Kottonmouth Kings or somethin a few times..they just do a bunch of blow and record some butt-rock album and call it a night.

Touring and opening up for larger acts won't get you signed. It's a great deal more about who you know and how much you want to be a business instead of a band. It's all about having the marketing and business plan in order.

Ohhhhhh ho ho, and you'd know all about this wouldn't you? Here's an update grandpa, since you've been out of the game for awhile- Not all labels are run the same way.
Here's another startling piece of information: 95% of SIGNED bands (to these types of labels) don't have marketing or business plans and it's unlikely they ever will.
Want more?: the last few bands I've seen get signed- didn't know anyone at a label. dun Dun DUN!

Now what?

Well kiddie, I highly doubt that there was no contact between the band or band's management and the label before hand. This idea that A&R people just randomly going around seeing bands they've never heard of and handing on contracts is fiction. Plus are we talking about a major label or some indy label ran out of a kids garage.

Further more any band that enters into a contract without representation or at least legal representation is going to get ripped off. The label is going to hand them the dummy contract and if the band is stupid enough to sign it they will see a majority of the band's income going to the label.

[Varg]

Ohhhhhh ho ho, and you'd know all about this wouldn't you? Here's an update grandpa, since you've been out of the game for awhile- Not all labels are run the same way.
Here's another startling piece of information: 95% of SIGNED bands (to these types of labels) don't have marketing or business plans and it's unlikely they ever will.
Want more?: the last few bands I've seen get signed- didn't know anyone at a label. dun Dun DUN!

Now what?

Well kiddie, I highly doubt that there was no contact between the band or band's management and the label before hand. This idea that A&R people just randomly going around seeing bands they've never heard of and handing on contracts is fiction. Plus are we talking about a major label or some indy label ran out of a kids garage.

Further more any band that enters into a contract without representation or at least legal representation is going to get ripped off. The label is going to hand them the dummy contract and if the band is stupid enough to sign it they will see a majority of the band's income going to the label.

I said "these types of labels" i.e. Victory, Metal Blade, etc. etc. Bands on that level typically don't even have a manager- before or after being signed. I'm friends with a couple bands on MB and they don't have managers...and arguably, they don't need them.
The part in bold made me giggle. The majority of the bands income going to a label? Brah, do you even know where the majority of the bands income comes from? Merch/touring. And what percentage does the label get of that? Answer: 0%
Is that fair? Fuck no. The label is the one giving them money for recording and promoting their album, and promoting the band. But their income is based on record sales and royalties (and the occasional webshop)....and nobody (including me) buys albums- they download them from p2p sites. It's the DUMBEST SHIT FOR BRAINS business method I've ever seen in my life. And here's where you have it backwards...
Without saying too much, I've talked to the heads of two different labels about doing 360 deals with newer bands they sign. For those of you (everyone) that don't know what a 360 deal is, the basic jist of it is the label pays for all your shit, takes care of promotion and all that, and in return they get a cut of all your income (merch, touring, phonograph sales) typically in the neighborhood of 10%. 360 deals right now typically exist for bigger artists like Jay-Z and Madonna.
10% is practically DICK. That's not going to cripple a band at all....and it would absolutely help the record labels stay afloat since they aren't even making money on recorded music. Seems like it would be justified too since they're paying for the promotion and everything else. You could argue very effectively that nobody would know of such and such a band had they never been signed and had somebody to handle all their shit from them, thus they never would've made any money in the first place. Can't really argue against that.
So why don't these labels do this? "Because it's not fair to the bands..." I swear to Christ, both Label heads told me this and my jaw dropped. "They're not making very much money anyway, so who am I to take even more from them?" In a business known for its thievery, untrustworthy-ness, screwing people over, drugs, etc. this was the biggest display of integrity I've ever seen in my life. Labels like Metal Blade, Prosthetic, Nuclear Blast, Relapse, etc. care far more about the music than the money. Most believe that when they back good music, the money will follow. There is a sort of unspoken principle that they abide by which says "If you're doing a good job, why would they leave?" I don't want to say too much else, but everyone I've met has been nothing short of a stand up guy/girl. It's uncanny.
Go do a google search on Brian Slagel and you'll see in many interviews that he talks about how he'll sign bands just because he likes them- regardless of whether or not he thinks they'll make any money.

[sams]

The only confusing thing for me is why this band would sign with Victory. Seems like they would do a lot more on Roadrunner or a major. The song "The Way of Your World" on their myspace is really catchy. Don't know anything about them as people, but they can write good songs.

[lukerauch]

its different with every label

i think its funny when bands like that get some huge fucking deal after NO touring at all. sure they might have opened up for the Kottonmouth Kings or somethin a few times..they just do a bunch of blow and record some butt-rock album and call it a night.

Touring and opening up for larger acts won't get you signed. It's a great deal more about who you know and how much you want to be a business instead of a band. It's all about having the marketing and business plan in order.

Touring and opening up for larger acts has gotten bands signed. I've toured my balls off for the past 4 years and labels look at how much you tour. Thats fucking it. I mean these dick bags did what exactly what you're saying. I guarantee they'll be regretting making a deal with victory in about 6 months when they realize they're still broke just like every other victory band.

[lukerauch]

haha who even gives a fuck? this band blows. MOVING ON

[DaVo]

I said "these types of labels" i.e. Victory, Metal Blade, etc. etc. Bands on that level typically don't even have a manager- before or after being signed. I'm friends with a couple bands on MB and they don't have managers...and arguably, they don't need them.
The part in bold made me giggle. The majority of the bands income going to a label? Brah, do you even know where the majority of the bands income comes from? Merch/touring. And what percentage does the label get of that? Answer: 0%
Is that fair? Fuck no. The label is the one giving them money for recording and promoting their album, and promoting the band. But their income is based on record sales and royalties (and the occasional webshop)....and nobody (including me) buys albums- they download them from p2p sites. It's the DUMBEST SHIT FOR BRAINS business method I've ever seen in my life. And here's where you have it backwards...
Without saying too much, I've talked to the heads of two different labels about doing 360 deals with newer bands they sign. For those of you (everyone) that don't know what a 360 deal is, the basic jist of it is the label pays for all your shit, takes care of promotion and all that, and in return they get a cut of all your income (merch, touring, phonograph sales) typically in the neighborhood of 10%. 360 deals right now typically exist for bigger artists like Jay-Z and Madonna.
10% is practically DICK. That's not going to cripple a band at all....and it would absolutely help the record labels stay afloat since they aren't even making money on recorded music. Seems like it would be justified too since they're paying for the promotion and everything else. You could argue very effectively that nobody would know of such and such a band had they never been signed and had somebody to handle all their shit from them, thus they never would've made any money in the first place. Can't really argue against that.
So why don't these labels do this? "Because it's not fair to the bands..." I swear to Christ, both Label heads told me this and my jaw dropped. "They're not making very much money anyway, so who am I to take even more from them?" In a business known for its thievery, untrustworthy-ness, screwing people over, drugs, etc. this was the biggest display of integrity I've ever seen in my life. Labels like Metal Blade, Prosthetic, Nuclear Blast, Relapse, etc. care far more about the music than the money. Most believe that when they back good music, the money will follow. There is a sort of unspoken principle that they abide by which says "If you're doing a good job, why would they leave?" I don't want to say too much else, but everyone I've met has been nothing short of a stand up guy/girl. It's uncanny.
Go do a google search on Brian Slagel and you'll see in many interviews that he talks about how he'll sign bands just because he likes them- regardless of whether or not he thinks they'll make any money.

360 deals that is your bases for this idea that bands don't need to have representation? If anything this is the reason they do. Most bands regardless who they sign with make no money off record sells. A majority of their income comes from Publishing, merch and depending on their booking touring. So not only does the band make no money on the records sells but they also fork over 10%(by the way, I've been hearing closer to 40% and 50%) of their merch, publishing and ticket sales? This only benefits the label. Plus you are putting all your trust in the label to handle your promotion, booking and management and for an unlimited time. Basically this is a Dummy Contract that only benefits the label. It pushes the middle men aka management. PR, publishing house, and booking agent, out of the picture and allows them complete control over their artist.

This "I do it for the love of this music" is bullshit. If that was the case why even bother with contracts? Just put the records out and sell them out of the trunk of your car like they did in the 50s. Labels are owned and ran by business men that do it to make money and not for the love of the music. Sure some smaller labels maybe able to put out records on a ma and pa level but they are not the labels that are going to take a band to true national level. That said there is a place for them. In fact I would say a majority of the music that I own was released on such labels. However they are not the mainstream of the market in the least bit and are more like specialty shops than anything.

I'm tired of hearing about how recorded music is dead. If there was a profit in it, they wouldn't continue to produce recorded material. Someone is buying it but not at the level they were a few years ago. You could blame it on the introduction of media files but they tried to claim that in the 80s with home taping. The downturn may really have more to do with the fact that there really hasn't been a bandwagon trend to cash into since the 90s. Most of the rehash just isn't selling like it once did and the industry hasn't figured out that the consumer demand has shifted back from Albums to Singles. The industry will have to adapt or die and the answer isn't giving these accountants more control over their artist.

[JoePreppy]

Ohhhhhh ho ho, and you'd know all about this wouldn't you? Here's an update grandpa, since you've been out of the game for awhile- Not all labels are run the same way.
Here's another startling piece of information: 95% of SIGNED bands (to these types of labels) don't have marketing or business plans and it's unlikely they ever will.
Want more?: the last few bands I've seen get signed- didn't know anyone at a label. dun Dun DUN!

Now what?

You sound like a complete bitch talking like that. Now waiting for the Jim Carrey "The Mask" 'smoooooookin' line, jackfuck.

[Big Fat Retard]

Ohhhhhh ho ho, and you'd know all about this wouldn't you? Here's an update grandpa, since you've been out of the game for awhile- Not all labels are run the same way.
Here's another startling piece of information: 95% of SIGNED bands (to these types of labels) don't have marketing or business plans and it's unlikely they ever will.
Want more?: the last few bands I've seen get signed- didn't know anyone at a label. dun Dun DUN!

Now what?

Well kiddie, I highly doubt that there was no contact between the band or band's management and the label before hand. This idea that A&R people just randomly going around seeing bands they've never heard of and handing on contracts is fiction. Plus are we talking about a major label or some indy label ran out of a kids garage.

Further more any band that enters into a contract without representation or at least legal representation is going to get ripped off. The label is going to hand them the dummy contract and if the band is stupid enough to sign it they will see a majority of the band's income going to the label.

I said "these types of labels" i.e. Victory, Metal Blade, etc. etc. Bands on that level typically don't even have a manager- before or after being signed. I'm friends with a couple bands on MB and they don't have managers...and arguably, they don't need them.
The part in bold made me giggle. The majority of the bands income going to a label? Brah, do you even know where the majority of the bands income comes from? Merch/touring. And what percentage does the label get of that? Answer: 0%
Is that fair? Fuck no. The label is the one giving them money for recording and promoting their album, and promoting the band. But their income is based on record sales and royalties (and the occasional webshop)....and nobody (including me) buys albums- they download them from p2p sites. It's the DUMBEST SHIT FOR BRAINS business method I've ever seen in my life. And here's where you have it backwards...
Without saying too much, I've talked to the heads of two different labels about doing 360 deals with newer bands they sign. For those of you (everyone) that don't know what a 360 deal is, the basic jist of it is the label pays for all your shit, takes care of promotion and all that, and in return they get a cut of all your income (merch, touring, phonograph sales) typically in the neighborhood of 10%. 360 deals right now typically exist for bigger artists like Jay-Z and Madonna.
10% is practically DICK. That's not going to cripple a band at all....and it would absolutely help the record labels stay afloat since they aren't even making money on recorded music. Seems like it would be justified too since they're paying for the promotion and everything else. You could argue very effectively that nobody would know of such and such a band had they never been signed and had somebody to handle all their shit from them, thus they never would've made any money in the first place. Can't really argue against that.
So why don't these labels do this? "Because it's not fair to the bands..." I swear to Christ, both Label heads told me this and my jaw dropped. "They're not making very much money anyway, so who am I to take even more from them?" In a business known for its thievery, untrustworthy-ness, screwing people over, drugs, etc. this was the biggest display of integrity I've ever seen in my life. Labels like Metal Blade, Prosthetic, Nuclear Blast, Relapse, etc. care far more about the music than the money. Most believe that when they back good music, the money will follow. There is a sort of unspoken principle that they abide by which says "If you're doing a good job, why would they leave?" I don't want to say too much else, but everyone I've met has been nothing short of a stand up guy/girl. It's uncanny.
Go do a google search on Brian Slagel and you'll see in many interviews that he talks about how he'll sign bands just because he likes them- regardless of whether or not he thinks they'll make any money.

Didn't a great wiseman by the name of Frank Zappa once say "Shut up and play yer guitar"?

[moltar]

Well kiddie, I highly doubt that there was no contact between the band or band's management and the label before hand. This idea that A&R people just randomly going around seeing bands they've never heard of and handing on contracts is fiction. Plus are we talking about a major label or some indy label ran out of a kids garage.

Further more any band that enters into a contract without representation or at least legal representation is going to get ripped off. The label is going to hand them the dummy contract and if the band is stupid enough to sign it they will see a majority of the band's income going to the label.

Welcome to 2009, DaVo. One time Varg saw this band do this thing completely contradictory to your argument and his anecdotal evidence doesn't stop there! Let me tell you, it's not like the old days. What you once thought was only fiction is now a reality over at Prosthetic.

Varg, tell this guy how many cups of coffee you have to fetch for the label on any given day.

[Varg]

360 deals that is your bases for this idea that bands don't need to have representation? If anything this is the reason they do. Most bands regardless who they sign with make no money off record sells. A majority of their income comes from Publishing, merch and depending on their booking touring. So not only does the band make no money on the records sells but they also fork over 10%(by the way, I've been hearing closer to 40% and 50%) of their merch, publishing and ticket sales? This only benefits the label. Plus you are putting all your trust in the label to handle your promotion, booking and management and for an unlimited time. Basically this is a Dummy Contract that only benefits the label. It pushes the middle men aka management. PR, publishing house, and booking agent, out of the picture and allows them complete control over their artist.

You mean my BASIS? No that is not my basis. Again, I've said it nearly three times that we're NOT talking about MAJOR LABEL ARTISTS. None of my posts have discussed aspects of being a major label artist- aside from the 360 deals- which the labels we're discussing don't even do.
The responsibilities of a manager can be handled by someone in the band, and usually are for a couple different reasons- mainly so they don't have to give up even more of what little they make. A lot of management companies wont even take on bands at this level because of how little they make. I said I know two bands PERSONALLY and I have discussed with them at length this issue. I know probably 4 other signed bands personally that don't have a manager, and I KNOW OF a few dozen that absolutely don't have a manager. They all manage to get along with their label just fine. Most of them are able to talk to the label head directly- and therefore don't need a (middle-man) manager. You can sit there and bitch that they're getting ripped off all you want, which is highly debatable, but whatever amount you think they're getting screwed out of is probably near the same amount it would cost/would have cost to have had a manager in the first place. Most of these bands have no longevity and probably couldn't renegotiate/extend options even with a manager.
Nothing wrong with 'putting your trust' in the label to handle your promotion- after all, if they're the money hungry scavengers you make them out to be, wouldn't they be out to make the most money possible? And btw, it's not 'putting your trust in the label' it's CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED. How many contracts have you ever seen in your life?

This "I do it for the love of this music" is bullshit. If that was the case why even bother with contracts? Just put the records out and sell them out of the trunk of your car like they did in the 50s. Labels are owned and ran by business men that do it to make money and not for the love of the music. Sure some smaller labels maybe able to put out records on a ma and pa level but they are not the labels that are going to take a band to true national level. That said there is a place for them. In fact I would say a majority of the music that I own was released on such labels. However they are not the mainstream of the market in the least bit and are more like specialty shops than anything.

It's not bullshit; you're an idiot. That's why you've always been a nobody. There are a lot of mgmt deals that don't bother with contracts- they're handshake deals. ref: my post before this- I can't say anything more about it.
There are only 4 major labels. So why you bring up this "true national level" and what it even is, has no relevance to this discussion as we aren't discussing major labels.

I'm tired of hearing about how recorded music is dead. If there was a profit in it, they wouldn't continue to produce recorded material. Someone is buying it but not at the level they were a few years ago. You could blame it on the introduction of media files but they tried to claim that in the 80s with home taping. The downturn may really have more to do with the fact that there really hasn't been a bandwagon trend to cash into since the 90s. Most of the rehash just isn't selling like it once did and the industry hasn't figured out that the consumer demand has shifted back from Albums to Singles. The industry will have to adapt or die and the answer isn't giving these accountants more control over their artist.

A lot of it is media files. The other part is iTunes and how shitty the song-writing business got. People got really tired of spending $15 on an album that only had two good songs and the rest was shit. They said 'fuck that' and chose to spend $1.98 on iTunes to get the two songs they wanted and saved the other $13, or spent that on other singles. This started to force the songwriting community to get off their asses and be a little more serious.



And on another note, the reason I suggest indie labels begin to enter into 360 deals is because soon enough the industry will shift again, and recorded music as we know it will become 'free'. It will be used as a promotional tool to get fans to go see bands/artists live- because everyone knows THAT'S WHERE THE REAL MONEY IS. Don't believe me? Ask Arthur Fogel or Irving Azoff....or Prince.

[Varg]

You sound like a complete bitch talking like that. Now waiting for the Jim Carrey "The Mask" 'smoooooookin' line, jackfuck.

You said jackfuck- AND then said somebody else talks like a bitch? LOL- you truly are the 98 lb weakling. Come talk to me like that in person sometime and we'll see how permanent that trendy little tattoo of yours is.

Welcome to 2009, DaVo. One time Varg saw this band do this thing completely contradictory to your argument and his anecdotal evidence doesn't stop there! Let me tell you, it's not like the old days. What you once thought was only fiction is now a reality over at Prosthetic.

Varg, tell this guy how many cups of coffee you have to fetch for the label on any given day.

Don't see how anyone can argue against that, as you didn't even say anything. u mad?

Post script- ask me how many bands from Iowa sent in demos that I "listened to" and threw away...you know in between my coffee fetching time and all.

[inx515xhell]

not reading this.....fuck yall.
i always think this song is called JAM BANANA but i'm always just stoned.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S0WVmMyfhE&translated=1

[DaVo]

360 deals that is your bases for this idea that bands don't need to have representation? If anything this is the reason they do. Most bands regardless who they sign with make no money off record sells. A majority of their income comes from Publishing, merch and depending on their booking touring. So not only does the band make no money on the records sells but they also fork over 10%(by the way, I've been hearing closer to 40% and 50%) of their merch, publishing and ticket sales? This only benefits the label. Plus you are putting all your trust in the label to handle your promotion, booking and management and for an unlimited time. Basically this is a Dummy Contract that only benefits the label. It pushes the middle men aka management. PR, publishing house, and booking agent, out of the picture and allows them complete control over their artist.

You mean my BASIS? No that is not my basis. Again, I've said it nearly three times that we're NOT talking about MAJOR LABEL ARTISTS. None of my posts have discussed aspects of being a major label artist- aside from the 360 deals- which the labels we're discussing don't even do.
The responsibilities of a manager can be handled by someone in the band, and usually are for a couple different reasons- mainly so they don't have to give up even more of what little they make. A lot of management companies wont even take on bands at this level because of how little they make. I said I know two bands PERSONALLY and I have discussed with them at length this issue. I know probably 4 other signed bands personally that don't have a manager, and I KNOW OF a few dozen that absolutely don't have a manager. They all manage to get along with their label just fine. Most of them are able to talk to the label head directly- and therefore don't need a (middle-man) manager. You can sit there and bitch that they're getting ripped off all you want, which is highly debatable, but whatever amount you think they're getting screwed out of is probably near the same amount it would cost/would have cost to have had a manager in the first place. Most of these bands have no longevity and probably couldn't renegotiate/extend options even with a manager.
Nothing wrong with 'putting your trust' in the label to handle your promotion- after all, if they're the money hungry scavengers you make them out to be, wouldn't they be out to make the most money possible? And btw, it's not 'putting your trust in the label' it's CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED. How many contracts have you ever seen in your life?

This "I do it for the love of this music" is bullshit. If that was the case why even bother with contracts? Just put the records out and sell them out of the trunk of your car like they did in the 50s. Labels are owned and ran by business men that do it to make money and not for the love of the music. Sure some smaller labels maybe able to put out records on a ma and pa level but they are not the labels that are going to take a band to true national level. That said there is a place for them. In fact I would say a majority of the music that I own was released on such labels. However they are not the mainstream of the market in the least bit and are more like specialty shops than anything.

It's not bullshit; you're an idiot. That's why you've always been a nobody. There are a lot of mgmt deals that don't bother with contracts- they're handshake deals. ref: my post before this- I can't say anything more about it.
There are only 4 major labels. So why you bring up this "true national level" and what it even is, has no relevance to this discussion as we aren't discussing major labels.

I'm tired of hearing about how recorded music is dead. If there was a profit in it, they wouldn't continue to produce recorded material. Someone is buying it but not at the level they were a few years ago. You could blame it on the introduction of media files but they tried to claim that in the 80s with home taping. The downturn may really have more to do with the fact that there really hasn't been a bandwagon trend to cash into since the 90s. Most of the rehash just isn't selling like it once did and the industry hasn't figured out that the consumer demand has shifted back from Albums to Singles. The industry will have to adapt or die and the answer isn't giving these accountants more control over their artist.

A lot of it is media files. The other part is iTunes and how shitty the song-writing business got. People got really tired of spending $15 on an album that only had two good songs and the rest was shit. They said 'fuck that' and chose to spend $1.98 on iTunes to get the two songs they wanted and saved the other $13, or spent that on other singles. This started to force the songwriting community to get off their asses and be a little more serious.



And on another note, the reason I suggest indie labels begin to enter into 360 deals is because soon enough the industry will shift again, and recorded music as we know it will become 'free'. It will be used as a promotional tool to get fans to go see bands/artists live- because everyone knows THAT'S WHERE THE REAL MONEY IS. Don't believe me? Ask Arthur Fogel or Irving Azoff....or Prince.

God where to start. first I think we are in agreement that media files have killed the album as a main stream product. However the fact that people are still buying music on iTunes points to the fact that people are in fact still willing to buy music. The majority is just unwilling to buy albums when offered the ability to just buy the radio single. The labels will have to rethink how they market recorded material and maybe the quality of the music released will get better if sells rely on singles instead the bulk package of an album.

When I'm talking about a national, I'm talking about a national act. Maybe a better way to put it would be a band that is in fact able to tour world wide and makes enough off their music to support the member full time.

This idea that there is all this money in touring is complete fantasy. Unless the band is at the level where they are playing large venues, touring is a money losing situation. I have yet to come in contact with an indy band that makes huge profits on the road. Most in fact only survive on the road with merch sales and tour support they get from the label.

I'm not saying that a band can't manage themselves especially if they are a small indy band but reality is that they are limiting the amount of success they will see in the future. It's a who you know business regardless of what you think and there is an indy glass ceiling that they are going to hit. So hey if you aren't interested in running with the big dogs and getting big then sure sign to a small label, sign away your publishing, give away your ticket sales and your merch and let them control your career. Just don't be surprised if you get to the end and realize that someone else owns your music and your dead broke. Look at all those artist that made no money during their career but long after the band was dead and gone, have been lucky enough to make money off their publishing and masters by selling songs for ads, movies and TV. With 360 deals or the Polyphonic model bands and artist would be out of the profit and without control over how and when their music will be sold. Publishing is the future and the real money.

See many bands and artists have put their trust in a label. Musicians being ripped off by labels is a story that goes back to the begin of recorded music. Hell maybe even back to the publishing of sheet music. Most of it was done by small little independent labels ran by "music fans". It comes down to this, the more money that comes in the more you are going to need watchers to watch the watchers.

Let's face it the whole business sucks and feeds off the talent of others. It all comes down to figuring out who is going to fuck you the least.

[Big Fat Retard]

3 time Marijuana Music Award winners, Johnny Reeferseed & The High Rollers', instant stoner classics, "Light 'Em Up" feat. Afroman and "Brother Can You Spare A Dime" are now available on i-Tunes & CD Baby.

Help us finish the rest of our album by buying one or two of these great songs.

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jreeferseed

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSt ... 9&s=143441

[Nick]

Post script- ask me how many bands from Iowa sent in demos that I "listened to" and threw away...you know in between my coffee fetching time and all.

Post script? Really? Jesus, you really are a flaming homo, huh? There is nothing wrong with that, but just be true to yourself and admit it, dawg. You'll feel much better.

[Beaver]

Grrrreeeeaaat a prick contest between Davo and Varg. Too many words. Ya both sound like a couple of assholes. Lets get back to flaming shyte bands shall we....

[jjjsXe]

you truly are the 98 lb weakling.

As a skinny person, I wouldn't take any offense to being called skinny as an attempted insult, you need to get better material. Getting called skinny like fat people are called fat doesn't seem to have the same insulting affect. In my eyes, being ripped and having ridiculous muscles is actually....pretty gay, and I am pretty sure you are already aware of this since you take so much pride in them.