515 Crew

[Hank Fist]

I'm curious as to what forms of media people are the most willing to buy. CD's are the most obvious form to put music in, but I don't listen to CD's all that often, most everything I have is in digital form on an iPod or computer. Records are cool and sound good but not everyone has record players. Tapes generally sound bad but are cheap and you can fit a lot on them.

I like the vinyl release with the free Digital Download, you get a bigger version of the cover art then a CD, an analog version of some or all of the tunes, and the entire album in the format it will probably be listened to the most anyway.

[Nick]

Vinyl release + digital download card (with high quality MP3s) = perfect.

It fills my need to have a phsyical version of the album that I can hold in my hand and read the liner notes/lyrics to while drinking and listening to said album. The digital download card rules as it means I don't have to rip the album myself and fills my computer/MP3 player needs. If I want it in my car on CD, I can burn the MP3s to disc.

[joseph]

consumers?

i just pictured hanky eating a table full of records and cds.

records. i try not to buy cds unless they have bonus unreleased stuff(normally jazz). i do still buy tapes.

[servo]

if i could take nicks dick out of my mouth long enough to repeat everything he just said i would...

[joseph]

id like to point out that mp3s suck.

i have ended up with an ipo d that i took on a road trip and i use it at work cause i cant get any internet radio access and its a metal warehouse that sucks for radio. it does okay in a pinch but the albums i have that came with digital downloads irritate me after listening to the records then wanting to listen to it at work and it just.... blah blah blah

[Hank Fist]

Vinyl release + digital download card (with high quality MP3s) = perfect.

It fills my need to have a phsyical version of the album that I can hold in my hand and read the liner notes/lyrics to while drinking and listening to said album. The digital download card rules as it means I don't have to rip the album myself and fills my computer/MP3 player needs. If I want it in my car on CD, I can burn the MP3s to disc.

is this like an SD card or something?

[aeon grey]

Vinyl release + digital download card (with high quality MP3s) = perfect.

It fills my need to have a phsyical version of the album that I can hold in my hand and read the liner notes/lyrics to while drinking and listening to said album. The digital download card rules as it means I don't have to rip the album myself and fills my computer/MP3 player needs. If I want it in my car on CD, I can burn the MP3s to disc.

is this like an SD card or something?

I think he means drop cards.

[Nick]

I think he means drop cards.

Yes. This.

Pretty much a piece of paper that has a code on it that you can go to a website, type in the code and download the MP3s. They can be used one time and then they are no longer valid (the card, not the MP3s.)

[Shane]

...and then someone uploads the album to mediafire and everybody downloads it for free.

[Nick]

...and then someone uploads the album to mediafire and everybody downloads it for free.

Hah. Pretty much.

[Varg]

LOL- who the fuck pays for music?


Sometimes I forget how TRULY RETARDED YOU GUYS ARE....

[joseph]

LOL- who the fuck pays for music?


Sometimes I forget how TRULY RETARDED YOU GUYS ARE....

yes cause its gotta be so great to steal/get stuff for free. move coast to coast. workout. work for a "label". and still come back to retarded ol 515crew to post and make us feel "mad"?

[aeon grey]

If you worked for a label... wouldn't you want people to buy music?

[Shane]

Record/tape collectors buy music. People interested in supporting bands buy music. Others might buy music because they are opposed to stealing, etc.

You don't have to be retarded to buy music. God damn you're fucking stupid, Varg.

If you worked for a label... wouldn't you want people to buy music?

Exactly. God damn you're fucking stupid, Varg.

[robdigi]

I don't often buy music. If it's something I really dig I will buy the record for my collection, but until I can pay for a product or service as good as what I get from a private torrent web site, the music industry doesn't get my dollar.

I rationalize it by making sure I go to see bands that I like whenever they play and buying merch.


PS: MP3s sound just as good as any format (vinyl, CD, or otherwise) if you rip them properly. Blame the encoder, not the format.

[joseph]

I don't often buy music. If it's something I really dig I will buy the record for my collection, but until I can pay for a product or service as good as what I get from a private torrent web site, the music industry doesn't get my dollar.

I rationalize it by making sure I go to see bands that I like whenever they play and buying merch.


PS: MP3s sound just as good as any format (vinyl, CD, or otherwise) if you rip them properly. Blame the encoder, not the format.

i dont get the anti music industry thing. im old. i like having a physical copy.

ive never heard any digital(computer type) version of anything that sounded right. minus godflesh and jesu who only record in that domain. cds versus vinyl do not sound the same.
but im old and stubborn.

[robdigi]

I'm not anti-music industry per se, but I'm not a sucker either.


$15 for a piece of plastic worth less than a penny, containing data that I can otherwise procure for free and that can be played on every electronic device I use regularly... it just doesn't make sense. Until they catch up with technology and our cultural attitude towards the value of entertainment they don't deserve the ridiculous amount of cash that they ask for.


That aside, let's be REAL dawgz. Even if they make a pay service that equals the quality of the infrastructure I already use to steal, I'm not going to use it. I'm going to get what I can for free. Baby jesus blessed me with the savvy to get any media for free, and to throw that away would be a waste. Plus, CDs are wasteful and impractical for me. I don't have room to cart a bunch of CDs with me, and I listen to 3-5 albums a day as I commute and work. Why stop and switch CDs when I can change the album I'm listening to on my iphone while still traveling 20mph on my bike? I don't care about the politics of it, for me it comes down to what fits my lifestyle best. I don't care about having a physical object... physical objects can be lost or broken. Data can be infinitely reproduced.

I'll still support artists I respect by giving them my cash directly, but I don't really give a shit about the industry that leeches off of them.

[joseph]

hmm. i guess most of what i buy is used. like 99% of it. the stuff i buy new. i either buy directly from the band or directly from the label as i figure theyre the ones putting it out. i have gotten very upset about spending 27 bucks plus shipping for one record. but i had to have it.
somebody played "clouds- we are above you" and i had intented on buying it. then i went to hydra head and it was like twenty something plus frieght. i didnt like it that well.

i dont really buy new stuff from majors? unless buying a 3 cd box set of james brown and the famous flames from walmart for 3.99 counts?

[Hank Fist]

LOL- who the fuck pays for music?


Sometimes I forget how TRULY RETARDED YOU GUYS ARE....

Didn't you go to school to sell music?
please write more about your own chromosomal anomalies.

[aeon grey]

$15 for a piece of plastic worth less than a penny

See, somewhere this philosophy changed. People used to buy cds, tapes, vinyl etc because of the music that was on them.

While I agree that getting things for free is great. The music has now been devalued entirely because of this mindset. Sure you may buy things at shows, but what about artists who never make it to your area, or you aren't able to go see live? Do you send them a check?

At the same time, I never buy music. But I also don't steal it. I really just never listen to anything but records I have, and what we are working on at the time which keeps me more than occupied. I just can't understand someone who listens to music for 3 to 4 hours a day not seeing the value in it, and wanting to at least contribute something to the artists.

[robdigi]

I understand that buying music is paying for more than a physical object. I'll buy any cd by a band I like for $10 or so, but if someone
is charging 15 bucks for a CD it better come with a blow job. Main point is that I get more value from the free download. I can get reviews and suggestions from the same source as the music. The "legit" music business doesn't have anything that compares to say, what.cd.

Plus, pretty much every band I listen to has or will play in Denver or
NYC at some point. I'm not
too worried about that.

[aeon grey]

Main point is that I get more value from the free download.

but not $10 worth?

Or I guess, not $15 worth, but sometimes $10 worth, if the band is also willing to play in Denver or NYC.

[Nick]

To me, beyond my need to have a physical copy of albums I like, it is about supporting independent bands and labels. We can all sit here and say how most indie bands aren't making music for the money and while that is true in most cases, it still takes money to make music. They can't do this shit for free.

I agree that record labels are becoming less and less important and eventually they will probably die out all together, but right now, they are still important (especially in the underground/indie scene). How is some band that wants to get their music out there on a phsycial media (CD, Vinyl, Cassette) format supposed to be able to afford to do so when people will just take their music for free? That is where a the label comes in. Labels will front the money to press the album for the band, as most bands in the indie scene can't really afford to do so themselves. Also, they help promote the bands and set up tours, etc. The relationship between band and label in the punk scene has always been something special and that you don't find in other scenes. It would be a shame to see that disappear and I feel that the current digital/file-sharing craze will do just that.

Don't get me wrong, I download shit myself. But I manly do it for he purpose to check out new bands or when I can't wait for a particular release that I ordered, I'll grab the leak. Also, I'll download stuff that is out of print or near impossible to obtain, live stuff or bootlegs. This is where I feel file-sharing serves a purpose.

If we can't support the bands we supposedly love and just have the mentality that....hey..."they should be doing this shit for the love of the music anyway", then these bands won't be around in the future and the music we love will get so diluted with shitty, mediocre bands. Most bands can't survive on touring alone, so supporting them by buying their albums is pretty much a must in the indie scene. Like I said, it takes money to make a good album and they can't do it for free.

[Varg]

I'm not anti-music industry per se, but I'm not a sucker either.


$15 for a piece of plastic worth less than a penny,

The packaging of the CD (including the CD itself) actually costs about a dollar, sometimes two. Plus there are many other costs that go into that CD setting the price at $15. It's not like the label and/or band is making $10 a CD. It doesn't mean you're a sucker for buying it (well it kinda does since the RIAA doesn't go after people anymore) anymore than you're a sucker for spending .99cents on a double cheeseburger at MuckDonalds.

I agree that record labels are becoming less and less important and eventually they will probably die out all together, but right now, they are still important (especially in the underground/indie scene). How is some band that wants to get their music out there on a phsycial media (CD, Vinyl, Cassette) format supposed to be able to afford to do so when people will just take their music for free? That is where a the label comes in. Labels will front the money to press the album for the band, as most bands in the indie scene can't really afford to do so themselves. Also, they help promote the bands and set up tours, etc. The relationship between band and label in the punk scene has always been something special and that you don't find in other scenes. It would be a shame to see that disappear and I feel that the current digital/file-sharing craze will do just that.

You really don't know what labels do.
Labels are not becoming less and less important.
They will not 'eventually die out altogether'.
Labels do not just 'front' the money to have CDs pressed- but also to have them recorded.
Labels do not set up tours. (Ever heard of touring agencies?)
Digital music doesn't harm the music industry, 'illegal' downloading does. When thinking in terms of popular music, people stopped buying music because they were sick of buying albums based off of a hit single only to find that the rest of the album was littered with nothing but SHIT. iTunes to the rescue. Great for the consumer- A wake-up call to the Major labels and a serious kick in the ass to the quality of music being produced/written.
I disagree with the way many indie labels are being run- due to the fact that they refuse to implement 360 deals. I hear them bitch about not making any money and while they are aware of 360 deals, they have NO intentions (at this point) of ever doing it. Kudos to them for not wanting to take any more from the bands than they already are, I think that's admirable, but at the same time you are operating a business without a sense of business.
I think it's a pretty fair argument- without the label, nobody would know who these bands are, they wouldn't be touring (no tour support or tour agency), and they wouldn't be making any money PERIOD. For the label to NOT take a % of their overall sales is nothing short of RETARDED. They spend the money and time promoting the bands- through videos and various ads, they're taking a huge financial risk which usually takes years to develop and ever make any profit off of, and they're only getting chump change off album sales? It's absolutely retarded. It's not like a 360 deal is going to be a deal breaker for any newly signed band- they would still be f u c k i n g THRILLED.

[joseph]

I'm not anti-music industry per se, but I'm not a sucker either.


$15 for a piece of plastic worth less than a penny,

The packaging of the CD (including the CD itself) actually costs about a dollar, sometimes two. Plus there are many other costs that go into that CD setting the price at $15. It's not like the label and/or band is making $10 a CD. It doesn't mean you're a sucker for buying it (well it kinda does since the RIAA doesn't go after people anymore) anymore than you're a sucker for spending .99cents on a double cheeseburger at MuckDonalds.

I agree that record labels are becoming less and less important and eventually they will probably die out all together, but right now, they are still important (especially in the underground/indie scene). How is some band that wants to get their music out there on a phsycial media (CD, Vinyl, Cassette) format supposed to be able to afford to do so when people will just take their music for free? That is where a the label comes in. Labels will front the money to press the album for the band, as most bands in the indie scene can't really afford to do so themselves. Also, they help promote the bands and set up tours, etc. The relationship between band and label in the punk scene has always been something special and that you don't find in other scenes. It would be a shame to see that disappear and I feel that the current digital/file-sharing craze will do just that.

You really don't know what labels do.
Labels are not becoming less and less important.
They will not 'eventually die out altogether'.
Labels do not just 'front' the money to have CDs pressed- but also to have them recorded.
Labels do not set up tours. (Ever heard of touring agencies?)
Digital music doesn't harm the music industry, 'illegal' downloading does. When thinking in terms of popular music, people stopped buying music because they were sick of buying albums based off of a hit single only to find that the rest of the album was littered with nothing but SHIT. iTunes to the rescue. Great for the consumer- A wake-up call to the Major labels and a serious kick in the ass to the quality of music being produced/written.
I disagree with the way many indie labels are being run- due to the fact that they refuse to implement 360 deals. I hear them bitch about not making any money and while they are aware of 360 deals, they have NO intentions (at this point) of ever doing it. Kudos to them for not wanting to take any more from the bands than they already are, I think that's admirable, but at the same time you are operating a business without a sense of business.
I think it's a pretty fair argument- without the label, nobody would know who these bands are, they wouldn't be touring (no tour support or tour agency), and they wouldn't be making any money PERIOD. For the label to NOT take a % of their overall sales is nothing short of RETARDED. They spend the money and time promoting the bands- through videos and various ads, they're taking a huge financial risk which usually takes years to develop and ever make any profit off of, and they're only getting chump change off album sales? It's absolutely retarded. It's not like a 360 deal is going to be a deal breaker for any newly signed band- they would still be f u c k i n g THRILLED.

what label do you work for?

[DaVo]

Ok, I shimmed this thread. So if some of this has already been covered sorry.

Personally. I want a physical copy. There is a lot of reasons for this but the biggest is that I'm a collector. I like the packaging and you do not get that with media files. Sure sometimes the artwork might be posted on line or included but that seems to be less and less the case. I've been through this dominate format change a few times before. First it was the cassette, then CDs and now media files. The one format that has always been the standard has been records up until about 15 years ago when everything went CD. I resisted it as much as I could but it got to a point where you couldn't find records. Used to be I'd buy a record and record it to cassette to play on the go. Once CDs became dominate it became harder and harder to do this. So I began to buy CD for new music and in a lot of cases records I already had that had been reissued on CD. Now I buy mostly CDs and then rip them to the Desktop and then transfer it to an external hard drive to play on my laptop and other desktop. More and more in the car I use my Pre's music app.

As far as the condition of the record industry, the downturn is being caused by a number of factors. One being that it is much easier to transfer music in to different media formats. Your average person can buy the song, rip it on to a computer and then transfer it to a mp3 player or burn it to CD. Thus you don't have the retail sales of re-issued music being bought the same way you had with the CD boom. People are not going to re-buy an album that my have on a CD like they did when the bought CDs of records the owned on vinyl.

Singles have always been part of the industry and in fact the album really didn't come into play until, I believe the late 50s. Sure there were back sets of 4 or 5 78s but mostly it was ep singles with 2 songs. Most people bought 78s and then 45s. Most LPs were mostly a best of collection of the artists singles. In the mid to late 60s you begin to have the concept album with albums being produce that were designed to be listened to in one sitting. The focus then began to change from the sell of singles to album sells and singles were treated as a promotional item that usually offered b-sides that weren't released anywhere else to boost sells.

This has never stopped. There have always be singles released every format from records to 8-tracks to cassettes to CDs. If people were only looking for the hit they could have just bought the single. The biggest difference with media files is the sell of single tracks is no longer in the control of the artist or the label. It is truly ala carte. So if there is only 3 good songs on the record then you can spend $2.97 for those 3 songs instead of $9.99. The problem is that a majority of consumers only are interested in the 3 or 4 radio songs on the record. It doesn't matter if the other 10 songs are of lower quality or not they are too cheap to spend the $7.02 to get them. There is starting to be a back lash from this and I think in the future you are going to see more album only releases. Remember that a large part of this is not profit but how the artist wishes to have their art represented.

If sells and profit continue to drop, you are going to see less records released, less tours and less promotion. Not just on the level of the majors but also the indy labels. When sells are done it doesn't effect just the big boys but also the ma and pops, who can't afford the loses.

[Varg]

Ok, I shimmed this thread. So if some of this has already been covered sorry.

Personally. I want a physical copy. There is a lot of reasons for this but the biggest is that I'm a collector. I like the packaging and you do not get that with media files. Sure sometimes the artwork might be posted on line or included but that seems to be less and less the case. I've been through this dominate format change a few times before. First it was the cassette, then CDs and now media files. The one format that has always been the standard has been records up until about 15 years ago when everything went CD. I resisted it as much as I could but it got to a point where you couldn't find records. Used to be I'd buy a record and record it to cassette to play on the go. Once CDs became dominate it became harder and harder to do this. So I began to buy CD for new music and in a lot of cases records I already had that had been reissued on CD. Now I buy mostly CDs and then rip them to the Desktop and then transfer it to an external hard drive to play on my laptop and other desktop. More and more in the car I use my Pre's music app.

As far as the condition of the record industry, the downturn is being caused by a number of factors. One being that it is much easier to transfer music in to different media formats. Your average person can buy the song, rip it on to a computer and then transfer it to a mp3 player or burn it to CD. Thus you don't have the retail sales of re-issued music being bought the same way you had with the CD boom. People are not going to re-buy an album that my have on a CD like they did when the bought CDs of records the owned on vinyl.

Singles have always been part of the industry and in fact the album really didn't come into play until, I believe the late 50s. Sure there were back sets of 4 or 5 78s but mostly it was ep singles with 2 songs. Most people bought 78s and then 45s. Most LPs were mostly a best of collection of the artists singles. In the mid to late 60s you begin to have the concept album with albums being produce that were designed to be listened to in one sitting. The focus then began to change from the sell of singles to album sells and singles were treated as a promotional item that usually offered b-sides that weren't released anywhere else to boost sells.

This has never stopped. There have always be singles released every format from records to 8-tracks to cassettes to CDs. If people were only looking for the hit they could have just bought the single. The biggest difference with media files is the sell of single tracks is no longer in the control of the artist or the label. It is truly ala carte. So if there is only 3 good songs on the record then you can spend $2.97 for those 3 songs instead of $9.99. The problem is that a majority of consumers only are interested in the 3 or 4 radio songs on the record. It doesn't matter if the other 10 songs are of lower quality or not they are too cheap to spend the $7.02 to get them. There is starting to be a back lash from this and I think in the future you are going to see more album only releases. Remember that a large part of this is not profit but how the artist wishes to have their art represented.

If sells and profit continue to drop, you are going to see less records released, less tours and less promotion. Not just on the level of the majors but also the indy labels. When sells are done it doesn't effect just the big boys but also the ma and pops, who can't afford the loses.

I'm not reading any of this because you're a faggot and I knew you'd chime in thinking people give a fuck about your two cents. Just step away from your computer. You're over 30 and need to GTFO the internet already. The only question you could possibly help answer here, is why only ONE of your necks has an ass chin.

You even had the gal to open with "Well sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't take the time to read any of it because I know more and I don't care what you think, but you're going to care about what I have to say, because I've been there and done that (oh wait, no you haven't) and I'm a huge ballbag who loves to read his own gospel on internet message boards." etc. etc. You are not the know it all on this board, let alone this thread- I am. Your opinion= invalid.

[DaVo]

I'm not reading any of this because you're a faggot and I knew you'd chime in thinking people give a fuck about your two cents. Just step away from your computer. You're over 30 and need to GTFO the internet already. The only question you could possibly help answer here, is why only ONE of your necks has an ass chin.

You even had the gal to open with "Well sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't take the time to read any of it because I know more and I don't care what you think, but you're going to care about what I have to say, because I've been there and done that (oh wait, no you haven't) and I'm a huge ballbag who loves to read his own gospel on internet message boards." etc. etc. You are not the know it all on this board, let alone this thread- I am. Your opinion= invalid.

Well, it seems that you did cause you seem very passionate about what you claimed not to read. In fact the posts that I didn't read were the ones posted by you. This is mainly cause you have proven over and over that other then the subject of how to be an effect you normally don't have a clue what you are talking about little boy.

Gee just what could I have to offer, hmmm, I wonder? Maybe some real life experience working with and knowing people that in fact do work in the music industry. I'm not talking about the guys that work in the mail room like you but A&R people, people that work in the promotional department, managers, booking agents, tour managers, producers, radio station mangers, talent buyers, etc... and this dates back over 20 years when you still haven't learned how to wipe your own ass little man. I'm not sure but I may know a few things about how things work and what is going on and have an educated opinion. Now if the topic was how to be a douche bag, I wouldn't have posted because you far more experience with that.

[Varg]

I'm not reading any of this because you're a faggot and I knew you'd chime in thinking people give a fuck about your two cents. Just step away from your computer. You're over 30 and need to GTFO the internet already. The only question you could possibly help answer here, is why only ONE of your necks has an ass chin.

You even had the gal to open with "Well sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't take the time to read any of it because I know more and I don't care what you think, but you're going to care about what I have to say, because I've been there and done that (oh wait, no you haven't) and I'm a huge ballbag who loves to read his own gospel on internet message boards." etc. etc. You are not the know it all on this board, let alone this thread- I am. Your opinion= invalid.

Well, it seems that you did cause you seem very passionate about what you claimed not to read. In fact the posts that I didn't read were the ones posted by you. This is mainly cause you have proven over and over that other then the subject of how to be an effect you normally don't have a clue what you are talking about little boy.

Gee just what could I have to offer, hmmm, I wonder? Maybe some real life experience working with and knowing people that in fact do work in the music industry. I'm not talking about the guys that work in the mail room like you but A&R people, people that work in the promotional department, managers, booking agents, tour managers, producers, radio station mangers, talent buyers, etc... and this dates back over 20 years when you still haven't learned how to wipe your own ass little man. I'm not sure but I may know a few things about how things work and what is going on and have an educated opinion. Now if the topic was how to be a douche bag, I wouldn't have posted because you far more experience with that.

And now you live in Des Moines and work where?





/thread.

[DaVo]

I'm not reading any of this because you're a faggot and I knew you'd chime in thinking people give a fuck about your two cents. Just step away from your computer. You're over 30 and need to GTFO the internet already. The only question you could possibly help answer here, is why only ONE of your necks has an ass chin.

You even had the gal to open with "Well sorry if this has been covered, but I didn't take the time to read any of it because I know more and I don't care what you think, but you're going to care about what I have to say, because I've been there and done that (oh wait, no you haven't) and I'm a huge ballbag who loves to read his own gospel on internet message boards." etc. etc. You are not the know it all on this board, let alone this thread- I am. Your opinion= invalid.

Well, it seems that you did cause you seem very passionate about what you claimed not to read. In fact the posts that I didn't read were the ones posted by you. This is mainly cause you have proven over and over that other then the subject of how to be an effect you normally don't have a clue what you are talking about little boy.

Gee just what could I have to offer, hmmm, I wonder? Maybe some real life experience working with and knowing people that in fact do work in the music industry. I'm not talking about the guys that work in the mail room like you but A&R people, people that work in the promotional department, managers, booking agents, tour managers, producers, radio station mangers, talent buyers, etc... and this dates back over 20 years when you still haven't learned how to wipe your own ass little man. I'm not sure but I may know a few things about how things work and what is going on and have an educated opinion. Now if the topic was how to be a douche bag, I wouldn't have posted because you far more experience with that.

And now you live in Des Moines and work where?





/thread.

Yeah I own my own business and no longer have anything to do with the music industry on a business level. However I have a number of people I call as friends that are still in the industry and keep in contact with. Guess what we talk about after the normal caught up about the family, friends and etc..., the fucking music industry!!!!!!

On that subject, you seem to keep dodging this question, What label are you working for and what is your job title? If you have mentioned these facts, I more than likely didn't read them cause you usually don't have a thing useful to say and I skip your posts.