515 Crew

[junkyard]

come check this out.

my lady friend is hosting this at the union park church.

if you care anything about like kids being forced in to the army in Uganda and stuff like that come check it out or just come to come. it shouldn't take to much time out of everyone's event full days.

[Tampa Josh]

No care ever.

Let those savages do what they want, they will never change. They can't rule themselves in a civilized manner. They'll all die of AIDS if they don't die in the fighting or of hunger.

Fuck 'em.

[kylervk]

that was an incredibly insensitive thing to say, dickwad

[Bullet Tooth]

im gonna go with josh and say no care.

[El Rhino]

Going to agree.


As unfortunate and sad as it is to hear about stuff like this, there's nothing that can be done - no amount of money or outcry from bleeding heart Westerners can solve it. Africa is Africa's biggest problem.

[Nick]

Africa is Africa's biggest problem.

True. But a lot of those problems can be attributed to the atrocities that were a result of Europe's "conquest" of Africa in the early 1800's (England, Holland, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, etc.) which resulted in massive apartheid and fragmentation. The apartheid in Africa led to the development of corrupt goverments and nations, that over the past hundred years have been in constant fights with eachother. These warlord/waring nations and governments probably wouldn't have developed to what they were today if European's had't came in and stripped the nations of their natural resources (leaving them with nothing for future sources of income/trade) and tried to force they way of life onto them.

I'm not saying Europe is only to blame...Africans themselves are to blame as well. Europe definitely got the ball rolling on this shitstorm that is Africa as we know it though.

[Hank Fist]

brown brown.

[jonnyROCKET]

obligatory "you know a lot about Africa for a COP" post

[Tampa Josh]

Africa is Africa's biggest problem.

True. But a lot of those problems can be attributed to the atrocities that were a result of Europe's "conquest" of Africa in the early 1800's (England, Holland, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, etc.) which resulted in massive apartheid and fragmentation. The apartheid in Africa led to the development of corrupt goverments and nations, that over the past hundred years have been in constant fights with eachother. These warlord/waring nations and governments probably wouldn't have developed to what they were today if European's had't came in and stripped the nations of their natural resources (leaving them with nothing for future sources of income/trade) and tried to force they way of life onto them.

I'm not saying Europe is only to blame...Africans themselves are to blame as well. Europe definitely got the ball rolling on this shitstorm that is Africa as we know it though.

Yeah, um, the Chinese are "stripping the Africans of their resources" now worse that the Europeans ever did (the technology is greater now to do this quicker and more efficiently) Only thing is they, unlike the Europeans aren't trying to get involved and stop them from killing each other, they are just giving shitty governments that are more oppressive than "apartheid" (not every Euro colony was an "Apartheid State") ever was weapons to kill. Where is the outcry about that. Oh wait, they aren't the European White Devil, it's cool then right.

Tribalism will never go away there, because the people are too apathetic to care. If you can't feed yourself, don't have kids. If you have fucking AIDS don't fuck.

In the 1970's I bet you would have supported Robert Gabriel Mugabe and his great crusade to end that oppressive White Minority Rule in Rhodesia, so oppressive with their hospitals and clean water and roads and infrastructure. When he didn't win the first election, he threw a fit and continued his terrorist campaign until he forced another election and terrorized people into voting for him. He was then handed the keys to the most successful African state, and his first act was to massacre Black African citizens of his new country, the ones he was supposed to be "liberating" only thing was the Matabele were the traditional enemy of his tribe, he didn't want a Bkack African Zimbabwe, he wanted HIS TRIBE in control. Tribalism.

He has since destroyed that country, the same fucking shit is happening in South Africa. The ANC is nothing but a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit that just want power. Fuck Africans, until they start helping themselves, fuck them. Every dime sent there is nothing but a waste.

Food sent feeds militias, not peopel, schools and hospitals become recruiting stations for the army... I could go on and on.

Get over your white guilt and stop blaming the fucking Europeans dude.

[ilikehorses]

Africa is Africa's biggest problem.

True. But a lot of those problems can be attributed to the atrocities that were a result of Europe's "conquest" of Africa in the early 1800's (England, Holland, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, etc.) which resulted in massive apartheid and fragmentation. The apartheid in Africa led to the development of corrupt goverments and nations, that over the past hundred years have been in constant fights with eachother. These warlord/waring nations and governments probably wouldn't have developed to what they were today if European's had't came in and stripped the nations of their natural resources (leaving them with nothing for future sources of income/trade) and tried to force they way of life onto them.

I'm not saying Europe is only to blame...Africans themselves are to blame as well. Europe definitely got the ball rolling on this shitstorm that is Africa as we know it though.

Yeah, um, the Chinese are "stripping the Africans of their resources" now worse that the Europeans ever did (the technology is greater now to do this quicker and more efficiently) Only thing is they, unlike the Europeans aren't trying to get involved and stop them from killing each other, they are just giving shitty governments that are more oppressive than "apartheid" (not every Euro colony was an "Apartheid State") ever was weapons to kill. Where is the outcry about that. Oh wait, they aren't the European White Devil, it's cool then right.

Tribalism will never go away there, because the people are too apathetic to care. If you can't feed yourself, don't have kids. If you have fucking AIDS don't fuck.

In the 1970's I bet you would have supported Robert Gabriel Mugabe and his great crusade to end that oppressive White Minority Rule in Rhodesia, so oppressive with their hospitals and clean water and roads and infrastructure. When he didn't win the first election, he threw a fit and continued his terrorist campaign until he forced another election and terrorized people into voting for him. He was then handed the keys to the most successful African state, and his first act was to massacre Black African citizens of his new country, the ones he was supposed to be "liberating" only thing was the Matabele were the traditional enemy of his tribe, he didn't want a Bkack African Zimbabwe, he wanted HIS TRIBE in control. Tribalism.

He has since destroyed that country, the same fucking shit is happening in South Africa. The ANC is nothing but a bunch of corrupt pieces of shit that just want power. Fuck Africans, until they start helping themselves, fuck them. Every dime sent there is nothing but a waste.

Food sent feeds militias, not peopel, schools and hospitals become recruiting stations for the army... I could go on and on.

Get over your white guilt and stop blaming the fucking Europeans dude.

so what's your intelligent solution? let the murder and death continue? because they're never going to "all die." there is a lot that can be done to stop it, but you can't see past your racism.

[Tampa Josh]

so what's your intelligent solution? let the murder and death continue? because they're never going to "all die." there is a lot that can be done to stop it, but you can't see past your racism.

Yeah, let them do what they want, fuck it. It is not racism. Their race isn't what makes them shitty people.

How come if someone says how fucked up Africans are, the "R" word gets thrown around?

What is going to be done to stop it? Please tell me how you can fix something that the people you are trying to help don't care about?

Instead of responding to anything I said, or even admitting I might be on point about something, you bust out the "R word" in an attempt to discredit me.

Tell me how you are going to fix it. Seriously. Throw money at it? Nope doesn't work. Send food, nope gets stolen and fed to the people killing to fuel their war. Sent food and guard it with soldiers? Nope the Africans then attack the soldiers, causing outcry about war etc. Send doctors, nurses, AIDS medications, and education teams to try to curtail the AIDS problem? Nope, AIDS infection has increased and workers are targets of attack and resentment.

Tell me what can be done? Please. And try not to just go "you're racist" I'm daring you to come up with a REAL argument.

[El Rhino]

True. But a lot of those problems can be attributed to the atrocities that were a result of Europe's "conquest" of Africa in the early 1800's (England, Holland, France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, etc.) which resulted in massive apartheid and fragmentation.

I wonder what would've happened if Africans were allowed to draw their own boundaries? My educated guess: Africa would still be a hell hole. Oh, and it's racist of you to assume that diversity (fragmentation in this case) is bad for a country.

The apartheid in Africa led to the development of corrupt goverments and nations, that over the past hundred years have been in constant fights with eachother.

No, the culture in Africa has led to the development of corrupt governments and nations. Europe spent most of the 20th century in some form of turmoil and corruption is relatively low there. African culture promotes serious egomania that leads to this sort of thing compared to the West.

These warlord/waring nations and governments probably wouldn't have developed to what they were today if European's had't came in and stripped the nations of their natural resources (leaving them with nothing for future sources of income/trade)

"Stripped"? Please. Africa is still very rich with resources. It's a matter of them putting them to good use. It's also important to note that Sub-Saharan Africa didn't even have the wheel when Europeans showed up, what were they going to do with these resources they were sitting on without realizing their potential uses for thousands of years?

and tried to force they way of life onto them.

I do agree with this. What's good for us doesn't mean it will work out for them and I respect Africa's right to be African. Nice use of ebonics, btw.

. Europe definitely got the ball rolling on this shitstorm that is Africa as we know it though.

That ball had already been a'rollin'.

so what's your intelligent solution? let the murder and death continue? .

As shitty as it is, yes. This raises some interesting ethical questions, but to me it seems like we realistically have two scenarios:

1. We choose to not intervene in the life of an African and let that person die off. That individual suffers and that's the end of it.

2. We intervene, keep that person alive, said person breeds (at typically much higher rates than us), a few years down the line they're looking to be saved again and this time there are a handful of children growing up suffering and in misery. We help them, they breed, repeat process.

Neither option gives us warm fuzzies, but it seems like we either have to do nothing or end up enabling more suffering.

While Africa has a ton of resources, they're not being used efficiently to provide for the population. There are cultural factors in play as well, but maybe the population of Africa is a little higher than what they can actually handle and allowing the herd to thin might make things better over there.

I'm currently reading "Camp of the Saints" that in a way address this sort of moral dilemma.

[Nick]

Get over your white guilt and stop blaming the fucking Europeans dude.

Read the last sentence in my initial post. I'm not placing all the blame on Europe. They simply laid the groundwork, the nations/tribes or whatever, have been fighting since.

I will say that a lot of the wars and geoncide in Africa in the past and present have also been religious based. Muslims and Christians fighting eachother (especially in Northern/Northeastern Africa). Wars over religion have happened all over the world, but Christianity had never even been introduced to most of Africa until Euorpean "missionaries" tried to force it on Africans in the 1800's.

Nice use of ebonics, btw.

Didn't even try doing that, but now that I read it again, I lol'd.

[joseph]

brown brown.

hahahhahahhahha

COP got PWN3D

[Tampa Josh]

Get over your white guilt and stop blaming the fucking Europeans dude.

Read the last sentence in my initial post. I'm not placing all the blame on Europe. They simply laid the groundwork, the nations/tribes or whatever, have been fighting since.

I will say that a lot of the wars and geoncide in Africa in the past and present have also been religious based. Muslims and Christians fighting eachother (especially in Northern/Northeastern Africa). Wars over religion have happened all over the world, but Christianity had never even been introduced to most of Africa until Euorpean "missionaries" tried to force it on Africans in the 1800's.

So what you are saying is that there were no wars in Africa until the White Devil went there? hahahahaha. Get a clue dude. Very few wars in Africa, especially Sub-Saharan Africa have been religious based. And the biggest Christian nation in Africa that has fought wars over religion was Ethiopia. Guess what, they were Christians BEFORE the Europeans got there...

No dude, most wars in Africa are based on ethnicity. They happened BEFORE colonization. Oddly enough during the colonial period it stopped for the most part, and after independence it started up again. Weird how that worked out.

Those people were wiping themselves out for centuries before the Europeans showed up, and they still are today. Their cultures don't value human life like it is valued in other places.

Sooner or later you need to stop blaming others, and realize these people are just fucked up, and there are way more deserving people in the world to help if your bleeding heart needs to help someone not in your own country.

[Nick]

You win Tampa Josh. You seem to take this a little more seriously than me. That's cool. I'm not ever going to get too worked up about Africa. I'm just trying to say the problems some African countries face aren't a sole consequence of their own actions. Same could be said about just about every country across the globe though, I guess?

[El Rhino]

I will say that a lot of the wars and geoncide in Africa in the past and present have also been religious based. Muslims and Christians fighting eachother (especially in Northern/Northeastern Africa). Wars over religion have happened all over the world, but Christianity had never even been introduced to most of Africa until Euorpean "missionaries" tried to force it on Africans in the 1800's.

So Africa had no indigenious religions or voodoo priests before Christianity was introduced to fight over? Interesting.

I'm not ever going to get too worked up about Africa.

I'm just trying to say the problems some African countries face aren't a sole consequence of their own actions.

Other than Europeans introducing them to a lifestyle and technology they were not ready/able to use, every problem with Africa is completely their fault. I'm sure they're loading you up with all kinds of afrocentric garbage in your police sensitivity training, but I'll say again that Africa's biggest problem is Africa.

[Hank Fist]

so, tampa josh, you're not going to be attending the screening, i guess? Oh, you're in tampa. What's it like to be a completely compassionless person? Maybe you'll need help one day, and then get stomped in the face. Would a sprout of compassion grow from the pulp that was once your head?

[junkyard]

im not to big on the subject but i mean it cant hurt to come check the screening out.

[Tampa Josh]

so, tampa josh, you're not going to be attending the screening, i guess? Oh, you're in tampa. What's it like to be a completely compassionless person? Maybe you'll need help one day, and then get stomped in the face. Would a sprout of compassion grow from the pulp that was once your head?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have plenty of compassion, just not for people that don't deserve it. Life isn't fair, sorry about their luck for being born in a shit hole, a shit hole people have being trying to fix for a long time, and it keeps getting worse. Sometimes you just need to abort a lost cause.

You want to help people in "developing nations," there are plenty around that you can help that will actually make a difference.

The people in the Central Asian Former Soviet Republics lives suck dick too, but when you help them, it actually works, and they appreciate it.

And sorry no, I have no compassion for people that have none themselves. Have you seen the way they treat people? Fuck them. Africa died with Rhodesia.

[tylerjames515]

so, tampa josh, you're not going to be attending the screening, i guess? Oh, you're in tampa. What's it like to be a completely compassionless person? Maybe you'll need help one day, and then get stomped in the face. Would a sprout of compassion grow from the pulp that was once your head?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have plenty of compassion, just not for people that don't deserve it. Life isn't fair, sorry about their luck for being born in a shit hole, a shit hole people have being trying to fix for a long time, and it keeps getting worse. Sometimes you just need to abort a lost cause.

You want to help people in "developing nations," there are plenty around that you can help that will actually make a difference.

The people in the Central Asian Former Soviet Republics lives suck dick too, but when you help them, it actually works, and they appreciate it.

And sorry no, I have no compassion for people that have none themselves. Have you seen the way they treat people? Fuck them. Africa died with Rhodesia.

Acting tough on the internet is cool, if you were in their position you wouldn't be saying any of this. Before you go stating how you never will because our country is so great, do you realize those kids don't choose to fucking be born into this and how hard it is for a child to get out of the country?

[Tampa Josh]

so, tampa josh, you're not going to be attending the screening, i guess? Oh, you're in tampa. What's it like to be a completely compassionless person? Maybe you'll need help one day, and then get stomped in the face. Would a sprout of compassion grow from the pulp that was once your head?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have plenty of compassion, just not for people that don't deserve it. Life isn't fair, sorry about their luck for being born in a shit hole, a shit hole people have being trying to fix for a long time, and it keeps getting worse. Sometimes you just need to abort a lost cause.

You want to help people in "developing nations," there are plenty around that you can help that will actually make a difference.

The people in the Central Asian Former Soviet Republics lives suck dick too, but when you help them, it actually works, and they appreciate it.

And sorry no, I have no compassion for people that have none themselves. Have you seen the way they treat people? Fuck them. Africa died with Rhodesia.

Acting tough on the internet is cool, if you were in their position you wouldn't be saying any of this. Before you go stating how you never will because our country is so great, do you realize those kids don't choose to fucking be born into this and how hard it is for a child to get out of the country?

Cool dude, keep sending money that only really fuels war, genocide, rape, and murder.

You know, I'm not some 15 y/o kid that has never been anywhere or done anything before. Ever think I am knowledgeable and passionate about this subject because of a personal connection to it or real life experience? Hmmmmm. Sorry dude, my life doesn't just consist of the internet.

[tylerjames515]

First off, how is going to a free screening of a documentary helping fuel a war in Africa? Instead of caring solely about yourself you'd see what is happening to these kids. CHILDREN. I really hope you have kids and they're forced to kill you, or taken from you while you're left to die.
That isn't what I was implying, what I am is quit being a douche bag.

[Tampa Josh]

First off, how is going to a free screening of a documentary helping fuel a war in Africa? Instead of caring solely about yourself you'd see what is happening to these kids. CHILDREN. I really hope you have kids and they're forced to kill you, or taken from you while you're left to die.
That isn't what I was implying, what I am is quit being a douche bag.

Look fruit, I ain't talking about the fucking documentary, I'm talking about the situation, is reading comprehension that hard?

Where do you get that I only "care about myself?" Yup, kids in Africa are being forced to fight, mine diamonds, etc. and I don't get worked up about it or give a shit about it, must mean I only care about myself.

Cool you "care" about them. What is that doing to stop that situation? Oh that's right, not a damn thing, but it makes you feel good about yourself right?

Tell you what, go to Rhode.... I mean Zimbabwe or Congo, or Liberia and go to the bush and see how these people live. See how they treat each other, see what is done with the millions of dollars in aid money that is sent there in person. (well you will have to look at the cars and houses of government workers who take most of it as a bribe to get a small fraction of it to the people that need it) Talk to them, and then maybe your heart will stop bleeding so much for them.

That shit is just how their culture is, let them do it.

So Mr. Bleeding Heart, go there, see in person how it really is and come back to reality. The real world isn't a pretty place, not everything can be roses for everyone, appreciate what you have and deal with the fact there are people who's lives suck.

[Nick]

....I don't get worked up about it....

I lol'd.

[El Rhino]

....I don't get worked up about it....

I lol'd.

You read the full sentence, right?

[creepykid]

all i'm sayin is josh and ryan have lots of points. the only thing the opposing view has done is accused them of not caring about kids.

ryan/josh 1 the rest of you 0

[Crumpty Williams]

You guys are definitely right about aid money being misused... Humanitarian intervention has all too often been used as an excuse to promote private and state interests that have nothing to do with helping the people who really need it; and even when it's legitimate in purpose, it usually gets misused ayway, for all the reasons that have been described here.

And yeah, there is a lot of violence over there that has a lot to do with the with colonialism, oppression and destruction of African culture by the Europeans, and other things white-man related. There's also a lot of barbarism going on that has nothing to do with Europeans coming into Africa. But to chalk all the problems and violence there up to tribalism in general or an overarching "they're just lesser and more ingorant human beings" argument is beyond asinine....

Regardless, the level of undeserved human suffering going on on that continent is simply unfathomable and undeniable. You can blame the warring natives and there violent ways all day and night, but you can't blame innocent children for something they were born into (bleeding heart argument or not, its true).

If people want to help (and there are certainly a plethora of ways in which individuals from the west and all over the world can actually contribute to improving the situation over there), why get angry about it?

I mean it's one thing to criticize foreign policy and to call BS on most of those "dollar-a-day" campaigns, but there's a million things that outsiders can do help, or at least try to help, diminish the trauma that's ravaging Africa. There are also millions of people in Africa that (1) can and do need, appreciate, and learn from such efforts; and (2) are doing all that they can to help themeselves, their people, and improve the situation on all fronts. I don't buy the idea that Africa is simply an entire continent full of warring, ingrate, ignorant fools that will never be able to be helped or help themselves.

In any case, Tampa Josh, I think you implied that you've had some personal experience with Africa? I'd definitely be more interested in hearing about the details of that than this endless (and silly) ranting about how Africans are totally worthless....

[El Rhino]

But to chalk all the problems and violence there up to tribalism in general or an overarching "they're just lesser and more ingorant human beings" argument is beyond asinine....
.

Of course. I mean the evidence against this is just overwhelming, right? I agree 100% that it's beyond asinine to assume that Africa's problems stem from cultural factors.

[joseph]

rabble rabble rabble. life isnt fair.

its a fucking movie.