515 Crew

[elliot]

let's start a black flag cover band, i want to sing.

its also been agonizing thinking of playing ginns parts.

All you have to do is fart around all over the place, in no particular key, for about a minute straight. It's easy.

With that being said, My War has been kicking my ass hard lately. I had never heard it until a few months ago. Shit is FUCKED.

[joseph]

The only thing I need to point out here is that Black Flag practice 30 to 40 hours a week and I'm sure he could play those songs in his sleep.

thats why BLACK FLAG is my definition of "hardcore". the only person i can think of with more dedication is John Coltrane.

I have to disagree, the Circle Jerks in 85 were shit loads better then Black Flag in 85. I'd much rather listen to anything after Wild in the Streets then anything after My War.

this is why we differ so much.
85? what about output? you gotta believe Black Flag wins.
they became a much better band when they got rollins to sing. not because of him but because the lineup stayed the same and ginn got to tell everyone what to do or else. like practicing twice a day for 6 orso hours at a time.
i will argue about Black Flag until i cant

[DaVo]

The only thing I need to point out here is that Black Flag practice 30 to 40 hours a week and I'm sure he could play those songs in his sleep.

thats why BLACK FLAG is my definition of "hardcore". the only person i can think of with more dedication is John Coltrane.

I have to disagree, the Circle Jerks in 85 were shit loads better then Black Flag in 85. I'd much rather listen to anything after Wild in the Streets then anything after My War.

this is why we differ so much.
85? what about output? you gotta believe Black Flag wins.
they became a much better band when they got rollins to sing. not because of him but because the lineup stayed the same and ginn got to tell everyone what to do or else. like practicing twice a day for 6 orso hours at a time.
i will argue about Black Flag until i cant

They were touring as much, playing out as and working just as hard before he got in the band. If anything there was a huge break because of being banned in LA and the Unicorn Law suit, that's why there is that space between Jealous Again and Damage. Also they couldn't seem to keep bass players. It was Greg's band hands down from the start. As far as the output there is a lot of stuff that came out after Damage that could have been thrown away. Often it lacked direction and was really wasn't that good.

See this is the on going debate, did Black Flag progress beyond their fans, did their fans just move on or did their fans simply want what drew them to the band in the first place. No prisoners, straight ahead, no thinking needed, aggression. By the time Ginn "quit" the band there was very little of the sound or heart of the band that started in 1977. They had a completely different thing going on there. Good or Bad they were not the same band. I really think they took it too far and lost their way.

I had a chance to see them when they played in Cedar Rapids in 85 but my ride bummed out at the last minute. I've never been as bummed about missing that show as I have in not seeing the Circle Jerks in the Quad Cities in 86. You see the Black Flag I would have wanted to see was the one that played in Decline but what I would have got was a long haired jam band. In fact I have to say that Rollins first few records were closer to what I was into then the last 4 or 5 Black Flag records.

[inx515xhell]

but what I would have got was a long haired jam band.

[joseph]

As far as the output there is a lot of stuff that came out after Damage that could have been thrown away. Often it lacked direction and was really wasn't that good.

See this is the on going debate, did Black Flag progress beyond their fans, did their fans just move on or did their fans simply want what drew them to the band in the first place. No prisoners, straight ahead, no thinking needed, aggression. By the time Ginn "quit" the band there was very little of the sound or heart of the band that started in 1977. They had a completely different thing going on there. Good or Bad they were not the same band. I really think they took it too far and lost their way.

You see the Black Flag I would have wanted to see was the one that played in Decline but what I would have got was a long haired jam band. In fact I have to say that Rollins first few records were closer to what I was into then the last 4 or 5 Black Flag records.

okay i stand corrected. THISis where we differ.
there was no lack of direction.

there is no debate. they stayed the same band. they didnt lose their way, they progressed( i think this is the biggest musical difference between us, i want a band to change and move on where it seems you want bands to never vary from their beginnings)

wtf does hair have to do with it? they grew that because hardcore kids picked on longhairs. they wanted to stand out and be different. rollins first few records were closer to ginns gone albums than black flag.

[DaVo]

As far as the output there is a lot of stuff that came out after Damage that could have been thrown away. Often it lacked direction and was really wasn't that good.

See this is the on going debate, did Black Flag progress beyond their fans, did their fans just move on or did their fans simply want what drew them to the band in the first place. No prisoners, straight ahead, no thinking needed, aggression. By the time Ginn "quit" the band there was very little of the sound or heart of the band that started in 1977. They had a completely different thing going on there. Good or Bad they were not the same band. I really think they took it too far and lost their way.

You see the Black Flag I would have wanted to see was the one that played in Decline but what I would have got was a long haired jam band. In fact I have to say that Rollins first few records were closer to what I was into then the last 4 or 5 Black Flag records.

okay i stand corrected. THISis where we differ.
there was no lack of direction.

there is no debate. they stayed the same band. they didnt lose their way, they progressed( i think this is the biggest musical difference between us, i want a band to change and move on where it seems you want bands to never vary from their beginnings)

wtf does hair have to do with it? they grew that because hardcore kids picked on longhairs. they wanted to stand out and be different. rollins first few records were closer to ginns gone albums than black flag.

Well, this is a sticky one. To me progress should involve improvement but in the same spirit of what you set out to do. It went from "Fuck it let's fuck shit up" to "Hey man, pass me the joint and let's see if we can draw this song out to 25 minutes. dude." To me that is not progress. If anything it was a regression back to 70s rock and what the movement was fighting against. That and in my personal opinion most of those post 'My War' records sucked and I'm being generous including 'My War' and 'Damage'.

I think a lot of it had to do with Chuck Bukowski leaving the band but the band that put out 'The Process of Weeding Out'(by far the dullest hardcore record ever produced) had nothing to do with the band that put out 'Jealous Again'. They were 2 different bands and the second version of the band no longer related to the scene they help start. You know that Greg had the progression of the band planned out long in advance and kept it under his hat for fear that others would take copy him. Funny that in the end most didn't but moved in a different direction all together.

Now that all said, I doubt that the Seattle Grunge scene would have started without the Black Flag records after My War and many of the SST releases of the late 80s. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing but it did re-jump start the hardcore punk scene of the 90s and without it many of you wouldn't be involved now.

[DARKBASS]

1st off........

Hey captain caveman!

just to clarify what do you mean by trashy?


2nd......

Rollins wears his influences on his sleeve......literally. He would be the first to tell you where he draws his influence from.

He was what 17 when he first joined black flag? I wouldn't blame him for trying to find himself. I mean he got beat up and spit on, as well as put down all the time.
-------------------

I also like a few Nick Cave songs, I definitely admire him as an artist, my roommate and his g/f just saw him in concert recently and said he still put on a great show.

[DaVo]

1st off........

Hey captain caveman!

just to clarify what do you mean by trashy?


2nd......

Rollins wears his influences on his sleeve......literally. He would be the first to tell you where he draws his influence from.

He was what 17 when he first joined black flag? I wouldn't blame him for trying to find himself. I mean he got beat up and spit on, as well as put down all the time.
-------------------

I also like a few Nick Cave songs, I definitely admire him as an artist, my roommate and his g/f just saw him in concert recently and said he still put on a great show.

Yeah and at least Nick Cave when asked will flat out state that he's been ripping off Falkner for years. Have you ever read the lyrics from SOA? Fact is that most of the Black Flag lyrics were written or edited by Ginn.

Rollins is more of a media persona then anything. If you want a real prospective of Rollins in Black Flag read some interviews from other members talking about "Get in the Van". Greg Ginn has flat out said that most of the book is fiction and that a lot of the stories in the book happened before he joined the band.

I haven't seen Rollins in years but for a while there he was the only one touring this part of the country. I must have seen him 10 times between 87 and 90. The best part of the show was him getting all pissed off cause people kept yelling, "Jealous Again", "My War" and "Clocked Out". Also an entertaining thing was to send all the Rollins Skater Groupies up to talk to him while he did his 30 minute warm up Tai Chi or Journal writing in the middle of the club. Oh and nothing beat his little post gig ego boasting seated circle jerks of him going on and on about respecting your fellow man but telling these 14 year old boys to go home and kill their Mom and Dad. The line of bullshit that came out of that man's mouth could have filled the Grand Canyon twice over.

He's an entertainer nothing more.

[jjjsXe]

There is WAY too much to read here. Black flag is better than the circle jerks even though the cj's played much faster. Keith Morris' voice kinda annoys me. Even in black flag.

From now on, let's keep the posts to 1 paragrah or shorter and enough with the double/tripple posts already.

[Beaver]

The Bronx kick ass.

Agreed, too many words in this thread and not enough lol cats.

[noel_nothing]

I had a chance to see them when they played in Cedar Rapids in 85

are you sure about that? the only iowa date i've seen listed is in cedar falls in '86.

[joseph]

Well, this is a sticky one. To me progress should involve improvement but in the same spirit of what you set out to do. It went from "Fuck it let's fuck shit up" to "Hey man, pass me the joint and let's see if we can draw this song out to 25 minutes. dude." To me that is not progress. If anything it was a regression back to 70s rock and what the movement was fighting against. That and in my personal opinion most of those post 'My War' records sucked and I'm being generous including 'My War' and 'Damage'.

I think a lot of it had to do with Chuck Bukowski leaving the band but the band that put out 'The Process of Weeding Out'(by far the dullest hardcore record ever produced) had nothing to do with the band that put out 'Jealous Again'. They were 2 different bands and the second version of the band no longer related to the scene they help start. You know that Greg had the progression of the band planned out long in advance and kept it under his hat for fear that others would take copy him. Funny that in the end most didn't but moved in a different direction all together.

Now that all said, I doubt that the Seattle Grunge scene would have started without the Black Flag records after My War and many of the SST releases of the late 80s. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing but it did re-jump start the hardcore punk scene of the 90s and without it many of you wouldn't be involved now.

thats what i meant by we differ. i see Black Flags output as a musical perfect progression. i think they got better as a band and as musicians. i definitely think a lot of what youre calling "jam"(which was rarely improvised) was definitely a way to fuck with their fans that wanted the same rehashed set. i like all the Black Flag ive ever heard and i smile every damn time i hear "you bet we got something personal against you". Gregg Ginn is a bullheaded genius.
theres very few bands that i can think of that are "punk". the only one i can think of right now is "friends forever"

[DaVo]

I had a chance to see them when they played in Cedar Rapids in 85

are you sure about that? the only iowa date i've seen listed is in cedar falls in '86.

Sorry got my Cedars mixed up. It was Cedar Falls. I remember everyone talking about them being sell outs cause they asked for a guarantee. I think it was like $500 or something.

[DaVo]

Well, this is a sticky one. To me progress should involve improvement but in the same spirit of what you set out to do. It went from "Fuck it let's fuck shit up" to "Hey man, pass me the joint and let's see if we can draw this song out to 25 minutes. dude." To me that is not progress. If anything it was a regression back to 70s rock and what the movement was fighting against. That and in my personal opinion most of those post 'My War' records sucked and I'm being generous including 'My War' and 'Damage'.

I think a lot of it had to do with Chuck Bukowski leaving the band but the band that put out 'The Process of Weeding Out'(by far the dullest hardcore record ever produced) had nothing to do with the band that put out 'Jealous Again'. They were 2 different bands and the second version of the band no longer related to the scene they help start. You know that Greg had the progression of the band planned out long in advance and kept it under his hat for fear that others would take copy him. Funny that in the end most didn't but moved in a different direction all together.

Now that all said, I doubt that the Seattle Grunge scene would have started without the Black Flag records after My War and many of the SST releases of the late 80s. That maybe a good thing or a bad thing but it did re-jump start the hardcore punk scene of the 90s and without it many of you wouldn't be involved now.

thats what i meant by we differ. i see Black Flags output as a musical perfect progression. i think they got better as a band and as musicians. i definitely think a lot of what youre calling "jam"(which was rarely improvised) was definitely a way to fuck with their fans that wanted the same rehashed set. i like all the Black Flag ive ever heard and i smile every damn time i hear "you bet we got something personal against you". Gregg Ginn is a bullheaded genius.
theres very few bands that i can think of that are "punk". the only one i can think of right now is "friends forever"

Funny but 'You Bet' is not from the post Damage period. You know the song is about Keith Morris but I've often wondered if it was more about the bands that copied their music. I know that he was really pissed that others had copied his style.

If you want to talk about progression, TSOL put out 3 records that sound nothing like each other. However you can put each next to the other and they stand well against each other. The heart and style of the band is there in everything they did. You knew that it was a TSOL record there was a connection between Abolish Government and Other Side that I don't see with American Waste and Your Last Affront.

If you take the stand of pissing off their fans, I think Flipper did a much better job of bumming out people. If they really wanted to bum people out they should have to the Glam track. I mean he was already playing the long guitar solos.

[joseph]

Funny but 'You Bet' is not from the post Damage period. You know the song is about Keith Morris but I've often wondered if it was more about the bands that copied their music. I know that he was really pissed that others had copied his style.

If you want to talk about progression, TSOL put out 3 records that sound nothing like each other. However you can put each next to the other and they stand well against each other. The heart and style of the band is there in everything they did. You knew that it was a TSOL record there was a connection between Abolish Government and Other Side that I don't see with American Waste and Your Last Affront.

If you take the stand of pissing off their fans, I think Flipper did a much better job of bumming out people. If they really wanted to bum people out they should have to the Glam track. I mean he was already playing the long guitar solos.

why did you quote me? nothing you responded with had anything to do with what i typed. im guessing because you wanted to talk more about "your"time period in "punk".i know you bet was earlier and yeah it was written about morris and the original reason why i wouldnt listen to jerks. i wasnt the one talking about pre and post damaged, i was talking about black flag as a whole. what little i remember of tsol, they never did anything for me, and that everything was surprisingly different album to album. but then again i know nothing about them. i wasnt taking the stand of bands intentionally pissing off their fans. i was making a joke about how you might have been the kind of black flag fan that would feel cheated by the band moving on. again just a joke not an insult. theres plenty of other bands better at pissing their fans off.

[Thom]

I was pretty sure I told you this thread was over a few pages ago.

Black Flag. FTW.

[joseph]

I was pretty sure I told you this thread was over a few pages ago.

TOLD WHO

[DaVo]

Funny but 'You Bet' is not from the post Damage period. You know the song is about Keith Morris but I've often wondered if it was more about the bands that copied their music. I know that he was really pissed that others had copied his style.

If you want to talk about progression, TSOL put out 3 records that sound nothing like each other. However you can put each next to the other and they stand well against each other. The heart and style of the band is there in everything they did. You knew that it was a TSOL record there was a connection between Abolish Government and Other Side that I don't see with American Waste and Your Last Affront.

If you take the stand of pissing off their fans, I think Flipper did a much better job of bumming out people. If they really wanted to bum people out they should have to the Glam track. I mean he was already playing the long guitar solos.

why did you quote me? nothing you responded with had anything to do with what i typed. im guessing because you wanted to talk more about "your"time period in "punk".i know you bet was earlier and yeah it was written about morris and the original reason why i wouldnt listen to jerks. i wasnt the one talking about pre and post damaged, i was talking about black flag as a whole. what little i remember of tsol, they never did anything for me, and that everything was surprisingly different album to album. but then again i know nothing about them. i wasnt taking the stand of bands intentionally pissing off their fans. i was making a joke about how you might have been the kind of black flag fan that would feel cheated by the band moving on. again just a joke not an insult. theres plenty of other bands better at pissing their fans off.

Could be this -
"thats what i meant by we differ. i see Black Flags output as a musical perfect progression."

[joseph]

Funny but 'You Bet' is not from the post Damage period. You know the song is about Keith Morris but I've often wondered if it was more about the bands that copied their music. I know that he was really pissed that others had copied his style.

If you want to talk about progression, TSOL put out 3 records that sound nothing like each other. However you can put each next to the other and they stand well against each other. The heart and style of the band is there in everything they did. You knew that it was a TSOL record there was a connection between Abolish Government and Other Side that I don't see with American Waste and Your Last Affront.

If you take the stand of pissing off their fans, I think Flipper did a much better job of bumming out people. If they really wanted to bum people out they should have to the Glam track. I mean he was already playing the long guitar solos.

why did you quote me? nothing you responded with had anything to do with what i typed. im guessing because you wanted to talk more about "your"time period in "punk".i know you bet was earlier and yeah it was written about morris and the original reason why i wouldnt listen to jerks. i wasnt the one talking about pre and post damaged, i was talking about black flag as a whole. what little i remember of tsol, they never did anything for me, and that everything was surprisingly different album to album. but then again i know nothing about them. i wasnt taking the stand of bands intentionally pissing off their fans. i was making a joke about how you might have been the kind of black flag fan that would feel cheated by the band moving on. again just a joke not an insult. theres plenty of other bands better at pissing their fans off.

Could be this -
"thats what i meant by we differ. i see Black Flags output as a musical perfect progression."

now you get it

[DARKBASS]

I'm about to go from (tra) ashy to classy!

[jonnyROCKET]

I thought of this thread:

"End Sounds is having their second annual Pre-SXSW Music Show/Party on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 at Red 7 in Austin, Texas with a one-time only all-star Minor Threat cover band. The label explained:

Similar to last year (where End Sounds had a one time only Black Flag tribute band called Nervous Breakdown, we're having a one time only Minor Threat cover band called Filler (e.g. the band's not playing any other shows together ever) featuring: Zach Blair (Rise Against, GWAR, Only Crime, Hagfish), Luke Abbey (Gorilla Biscuits, Warzone) Mike Herrera (MxPx, Tumbledown) and Rob Marchant (Riverboat Gamblers, Slowride, Saboteur) with vocals by Frank Carter (Gallows) Sam Ghanbar (Complete Control)"

[kylervk]

gallows, thats punk. i saw them and the singer climbed up on a hummer in the parking lot and started kicking in the hood.

[tylerjames515]

Gallows really isn't that great...but that singer is intense. He gets beat up all the fucking time.

[joseph]

mxpx? fuck that. no care ever

[ginx86]

There is WAY too much to read here. Black flag is better than the circle jerks even though the cj's played much faster. Keith Morris' voice kinda annoys me. Even in black flag.

From now on, let's keep the posts to 1 paragrah or shorter and enough with the double/tripple posts already.

This. Don't know what it is but Keith Morris' voice in general grates on me for some reason. I like the occasional Circle Jerks song but if you asked me to pick one I'd take Black Flag with Rollins over them any day.

I do agree with Davo though after My War Black Flag went downhill, imo.

[joseph]

I do agree with Davo though after My War Black Flag went downhill, imo.

never thought id see that

[DaVo]

I do agree with Davo though after My War Black Flag went downhill, imo.

never thought id see that

It happens from time to time.

[joseph]

I do agree with Davo though after My War Black Flag went downhill, imo.

never thought id see that

It happens from time to time.

it happens alot. just hadnt seen it in print

[Captain Caveman]

davo take care of your kids or give them mohawks or something

or tell them about all the black flag shows you saw when they were good

or be punk

ya know man just do whatever makes you FEEL young

[LossofSanity]

I smoked weed with Greg Ginn.

Truth.