515 Crew

[tom2electricboogaloo]

miner threat

[DaVo]

DaVo reminds me of some teenage nu metal kid. "Man we totally poured peer on this straight edge kid! He was so pissed!" If you can't respect someone's choice to be straight edge (And I don't mean "Man they have so much integrity respect" either) I'm not surprised you don't get respect back. Though I'm sure you're used to not having people respect you.

So many good straight edge bands in the 80s and the 90s. How the fuck can you say Youth of Today played rehashed material, they fucking revitalized the whole straight edge movement on the East Coast. Though I'm sure they care what some turd from Iowa has to say. No one here is impressed that you're an old dipshit.

I don't think I ever said that I didn't respect someone's choice to be straight edge. I said that most of the Straight Edge bands sucked. There is a complete difference. Being Straight Edge is a life style choice, not a musical style. That's the part that most of these bands missed and continue to miss.
It's like saying I'm racist cause I can't stand Micheal Jackson music or I must be a sexist cause I like Fear.

As someone who was in the scene in the 80s and 90s, I have to point out that there was still straight edge people active through out and it had nothing to do with YOT. In fact, most of the SE people I knew listened more to DRI, Crass, Black Flag and the Dead Kennedy's then ever listened to the whole NYC scene. Most of the SE people I knew at the time hated the East Coast scene because of the fact that they preached violence and forcing your views on others. Which went completely against what they believed in. If anything it drove a lot of the free thinkers aways from the scene and moved it more toward a jock or gang scene and aways from the punk scene.
If anything they killed the scene they are credited with saving.

In other words they printed the legend.

[jesse p]

Yeah ok. Let me break it down for your reactionary asses. My point is that loud and fast AND slow and simple are both exciting in different ways and that pointing out that I listen to one particular band that is generally mellow has no bearing on my ability to criticize music that isn't. I listen to all kinds of shit (hardcore included) so you can't point out one single band in a misguided attempt to discredit my judgement and expect to make any sense.

I came to the conclusion that you are being juvenile -specifically- because you decided to criticize Yo La Tengo, who could only be considered boring if you have no tolerance for subtlety, diversity, or creativity. It has nothing to do with your age or maturity level (which I don't know, considering this is the first thread I've ever noticed you posting in) and everything to do with your obviously simple and narrow view of what is good music. If you think they are so boring for reasons other than some of their songs having a relatively slow BPM, prove me wrong and elaborate.

But... that's not what this thread is about. It's about how "straightedge" is a boring subject to write music about, and is only relevant within a small and increasingly incestuous music scene. It's like Christian (or any other religious) music. You can believe what you want but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be bored to tears by songs written about those beliefs, especially as a genre.

Yeah I actually registered so I could just post in this thread. You caught me.

You are making assumptions about me as well because I like hardcore. Stating that just because I don't like Yo La Tengo I don't like diverse music is idiotic and "juvenile" as well.

Davo I know people who were around in the 80s and 90s as well and they certainly don't think they're special because of it. I am getting the impression that you think others simply don't "know whats up" like you do. No one is impressed either way.

When you were bragging about spitting beer on Choke is where I felt that you clearly don't respect straight edge. Why would you waste beer like that anyways, that's fucking ridiculous.

[@nonymous]

But... that's not what this thread is about. It's about how "straightedge" is a boring subject to write music about, and is only relevant within a small and increasingly incestuous music scene. It's like Christian (or any other religious) music. You can believe what you want but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be bored to tears by songs written about those beliefs, especially as a genre.

there is plenty of diversity within the straight-edge "genre", lyrically speaking. if it's the music you have a problem with, that's understandable. otherwise, sxe bands exist(ed) for the same reasons that most punk bands exist: to find alternative outlets for creative expression--one that is conducive to self-sufficient, anti-authoritarian lifestyles.

so your assessment that sxe is a "boring" subject to write about doesn't fare well with the reality that, though the members share a common ideal, the lyrical content reflects a whole host of ideologies and issues not limited to a substance-free model of living. the same goes for bands from all genres of the diy punk community back in the 80's, and today.

musically i'm with you. there are few hardcore bands that really move me, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they're sxe.

[inx515xhell]

REAL EDGEMEN HATE JESUS.
and that's all there is to it.

[DaVo]

Yeah ok. Let me break it down for your reactionary asses. My point is that loud and fast AND slow and simple are both exciting in different ways and that pointing out that I listen to one particular band that is generally mellow has no bearing on my ability to criticize music that isn't. I listen to all kinds of shit (hardcore included) so you can't point out one single band in a misguided attempt to discredit my judgement and expect to make any sense.

I came to the conclusion that you are being juvenile -specifically- because you decided to criticize Yo La Tengo, who could only be considered boring if you have no tolerance for subtlety, diversity, or creativity. It has nothing to do with your age or maturity level (which I don't know, considering this is the first thread I've ever noticed you posting in) and everything to do with your obviously simple and narrow view of what is good music. If you think they are so boring for reasons other than some of their songs having a relatively slow BPM, prove me wrong and elaborate.

But... that's not what this thread is about. It's about how "straightedge" is a boring subject to write music about, and is only relevant within a small and increasingly incestuous music scene. It's like Christian (or any other religious) music. You can believe what you want but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be bored to tears by songs written about those beliefs, especially as a genre.

Yeah I actually registered so I could just post in this thread. You caught me.

You are making assumptions about me as well because I like hardcore. Stating that just because I don't like Yo La Tengo I don't like diverse music is idiotic and "juvenile" as well.

Davo I know people who were around in the 80s and 90s as well and they certainly don't think they're special because of it. I am getting the impression that you think others simply don't "know whats up" like you do. No one is impressed either way.

When you were bragging about spitting beer on Choke is where I felt that you clearly don't respect straight edge. Why would you waste beer like that anyways, that's fucking ridiculous.

First off I didn't say I was. I said others were. Also this is after he had gone into preached about beating down drunks and junkies. This whole elitist better than you bullshit.

I the main reason to bring up that I was around when this was happening is to express that I have first hand knowledge of that period. In other words I was there, I was involved. Maybe not in NYC but here.

The truth is that the sound of most of those NYHC bands may have had more to do with the fact that the hardcore scene in NYC came much later then it did in DC, Boston, LA, Chicago and etc... Other then the Bad Brains and AF there really weren't a number of bands calling NYC their home in the early stages of Hardcore and Straight Edge. In fact NYC was dead for the most part of the early 80s. That said there were some great bands that came from that period but they weren't trend setters.

[robdigi]

Yeah I actually registered so I could just post in this thread. You caught me.

You are making assumptions about me as well because I like hardcore. Stating that just because I don't like Yo La Tengo I don't like diverse music is idiotic and "juvenile" as well.

So defensive. I just said that I don't know your age because I don't remember your posts. I didn't remotely imply that you registered just for this thread, only that you have hardly posted here and thus I know nothing about you in that regard.

My assumptions are not idiotic because you haven't done anything to convince me otherwise. I don't believe that you don't like diverse music because you don't like Yo La Tengo.. . I believe you don't like diverse music because of the very telling way that you made it known you don't like them.


Anyway, you were beginning to get on the right track with Toto. I think we need to institute a rule that a new user can't inject themselves into asinine rehashed arguments until they meet a certain quota of funny shit posted.

[jesse p]

Yeah ok. Let me break it down for your reactionary asses. My point is that loud and fast AND slow and simple are both exciting in different ways and that pointing out that I listen to one particular band that is generally mellow has no bearing on my ability to criticize music that isn't. I listen to all kinds of shit (hardcore included) so you can't point out one single band in a misguided attempt to discredit my judgement and expect to make any sense.

I came to the conclusion that you are being juvenile -specifically- because you decided to criticize Yo La Tengo, who could only be considered boring if you have no tolerance for subtlety, diversity, or creativity. It has nothing to do with your age or maturity level (which I don't know, considering this is the first thread I've ever noticed you posting in) and everything to do with your obviously simple and narrow view of what is good music. If you think they are so boring for reasons other than some of their songs having a relatively slow BPM, prove me wrong and elaborate.

But... that's not what this thread is about. It's about how "straightedge" is a boring subject to write music about, and is only relevant within a small and increasingly incestuous music scene. It's like Christian (or any other religious) music. You can believe what you want but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be bored to tears by songs written about those beliefs, especially as a genre.

Yeah I actually registered so I could just post in this thread. You caught me.

You are making assumptions about me as well because I like hardcore. Stating that just because I don't like Yo La Tengo I don't like diverse music is idiotic and "juvenile" as well.

Davo I know people who were around in the 80s and 90s as well and they certainly don't think they're special because of it. I am getting the impression that you think others simply don't "know whats up" like you do. No one is impressed either way.

When you were bragging about spitting beer on Choke is where I felt that you clearly don't respect straight edge. Why would you waste beer like that anyways, that's fucking ridiculous.

First off I didn't say I was. I said others were. Also this is after he had gone into preached about besting down drunks and junkies. This whole elitist better than you bullshit.

I the main reason to bring up that I was around when this was happening is to express that I have first hand knowledge of that period. In other words I was there, I was involved. Maybe not in NYC but here.

The truth is that the sound of most of those NYHC bands may have had more to do with the fact that the hardcore scene in NYC came much later then it did in DC, Boston, LA, Chicago and etc... Other then the Bad Brains and AF there really weren't a number of bands calling NYC their home in the early stages of Hardcore and Straight Edge. In fact NYC was dead for the most part of the early 80s. That said there were some great bands that came from that period but they weren't trend setters.

Three of the best hardcore bands were from that era in NYC. The Abused, Antidote, and Cro-Mags. I'm going to throw in Crumbsuckers too, even tho they were from '86.

However, this is like beating a dead horse. There is no point in continuing to argue over musical opinion.

[mattpulpfree]

what's straight edge?

[jjjsXe]

First off I didn't say I was. I said others were. Also this is after he had gone into preached about besting down drunks and junkies. This whole elitist better than you bullshit.

i am better than any junky anywhere, that isn't being elitist, it is just true.

[Bullet Tooth]

First off I didn't say I was. I said others were. Also this is after he had gone into preached about besting down drunks and junkies. This whole elitist better than you bullshit.

i am better than any junky anywhere, that isn't being elitist, it is just true.

truth.

besides, should davo really be talking about elitist better than you anything? thats all he does.

[tylerjames515]

yo...carry on rules by the way..

[jesse p]

yo...carry on rules by the way..

While I like Carry On, what happened with them just makes me . The fact that the band kept touring and hiding the fact that the singer was doing blow just makes all those "heartfelt lyrics" so much more hypocritical than the normal sell out. However, I totally want that Carry On shirt where their name is spelled with cocaine.

[joseph]

But... that's not what this thread is about. It's about how "straightedge" is a boring subject to write music about, and is only relevant within a small and increasingly incestuous music scene. It's like Christian (or any other religious) music. You can believe what you want but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be bored to tears by songs written about those beliefs, especially as a genre.

there is plenty of diversity within the straight-edge "genre", lyrically speaking. if it's the music you have a problem with, that's understandable. otherwise, sxe bands exist(ed) for the same reasons that most punk bands exist: to find alternative outlets for creative expression--one that is conducive to self-sufficient, anti-authoritarian lifestyles.

so your assessment that sxe is a "boring" subject to write about doesn't fare well with the reality that, though the members share a common ideal, the lyrical content reflects a whole host of ideologies and issues not limited to a substance-free model of living. the same goes for bands from all genres of the diy punk community back in the 80's, and today.

musically i'm with you. there are few hardcore bands that really move me, but that has nothing to do with whether or not they're sxe.

@ wins

[DaVo]

Three of the best hardcore bands were from that era in NYC. The Abused, Antidote, and Cro-Mags. I'm going to throw in Crumbsuckers too, even tho they were from '86.

However, this is like beating a dead horse. There is no point in continuing to argue over musical opinion.

Never really cared for the Abused maybe I've never heard enough, I really don't think I've ever heard Antidote but the Cro-Mags The Age of Quarrel was somethimg I listened to for sometime. However Age of Quarrel didn't come out until 86 and really it gets a little old abotu 3 or 4 songs in. The Abused didn't release anything other than their Demo and was on a few comps. So really didn't make it out of NYC.

When I think about NYC and what I heard come out of there in the early to mid 80s, only 3 bands come to mind. The Heartbreakers(great but little more than a rehash of the Dolls), Agnostic Front's and Reagan Youth. Until about 85 or 86 when all the Revelation Records, Caroline Records and Combat Core releases. A flash point for me would be hearing the New York City Hardore comp.

Most of the other hardcore scenes in the US were dying out by the time NYHC really started to peak. Making them more late to the game then really reviving the scene.

[DaVo]

First off I didn't say I was. I said others were. Also this is after he had gone into preached about besting down drunks and junkies. This whole elitist better than you bullshit.

i am better than any junky anywhere, that isn't being elitist, it is just true.

truth.

besides, should davo really be talking about elitist better than you anything? thats all he does.

Oh come on, Humble is my middle name.

Ok here's a question, when does expressing you opinion end and being an elitist begin?

Also there are a number of Junkies that I've known over the years that have been great people. It only made watching them destory themselves much more disheartening. We all have weaknesses, just not all of us have ones that kill and destory us.

The biggest problem with suggesting violence against some one who is defined souly as a "Drunk" or a "Junkie", it dehumanizes the person. It's hate speech, it's enforced morality. This was an on going thing in the Skinhead and Straight Edge scene in the late 80s. Lots of Us against them wrapped in a flag of unity. Now 20 years later, it seems it's still there.

Understand that when I make statements like this it is a board statement. I'm not in the least bit stating that everyone in these scene believes that it is OK to beat up a drunk. I'd like to think this is a fringe element but for some reason it seems as movements slow down and you get to the point where all that's left is the hardliners, the brownshirts rule the scene.

[Big Fat Retard]

[El Rhino]

Ok here's a question, when does expressing you opinion end and being an elitist begin?
.

I've known you for a long time, I know how you are and I know you're a good dude, but I think that maybe when you post stuff like "fact is..." and "the truth is..." about things that are pretty much subjective it comes off the wrong way.

[DaVo]

Still the greatest junkie that could have been a rock star ever.

[DaVo]

Ok here's a question, when does expressing you opinion end and being an elitist begin?
.

I've known you for a long time, I know how you are and I know you're a good dude, but I think that maybe when you post stuff like "fact is..." and "the truth is..." about things that are pretty much subjective it comes off the wrong way.

I use it as beginning to a summary. I keep it in mind in the future.

[jesse p]

Three of the best hardcore bands were from that era in NYC. The Abused, Antidote, and Cro-Mags. I'm going to throw in Crumbsuckers too, even tho they were from '86.

However, this is like beating a dead horse. There is no point in continuing to argue over musical opinion.

Never really cared for the Abused maybe I've never heard enough, I really don't think I've ever heard Antidote but the Cro-Mags The Age of Quarrel was somethimg I listened to for sometime. However Age of Quarrel didn't come out until 86 and really it gets a little old abotu 3 or 4 songs in. The Abused didn't release anything other than their Demo and was on a few comps. So really didn't make it out of NYC.

While I don't know if you'll like it, check out Thou Shalt Not Kill by Antidote. It was their only good release, but it is a masterpiece. Features original Misfit Arthur Googie.

[inx515xhell]

he was edge?
i knew he used to get shit when on tour with the misfits for not fucking mad bitches.

[jesse p]

he was edge?
i knew he used to get shit when on tour with the misfits for not fucking mad bitches.

Antidote wasn't an edge band.

[Thom]

BOOOOOOORING.

-Joe.

[Joe]

I would neither die nor kill for straight edge.

-Joe.

[DaVo]

I would neither die nor kill for straight edge.

-Joe.

yeah but can you live on it?

[Walking Thunder]

If a kid has to use an inhaler to control his asthma can he be edge?

Is caffeine edge?

Just wondering how strict people view edge.

[Shane]

If a kid has to use an inhaler to control his asthma can he be edge?

Is caffeine edge?

Just wondering how strict people view edge.

I'm no expert, obviously, but I think I can answer these.

Without an inhaler or other sort of treatment, asthma attacks are serious dangers to the asthmatic's health. The difference between this and other drugs is that there is a necessity as opposed to simple desire.

Caffeine is one of those things that I think will never be 100% black and white. I personally don't think caffeine is okay, but it's something that each person has to decide their thoughts on. Straight edge shouldn't be seen as a set of rules, just something to identify with if your ideology is similar. If you drink or smoke or do drugs, you're not edge (I think everyone knows this), but nobody can go around making rules about caffeine or anesthesia or whatever. I don't consume caffeine because I don't need to and since I haven't had caffeine in a long time I hate how it feels. Other straight edge people see caffeine as acceptable.

[Big Fat Retard]

Is caffeine edge?

Just wondering how strict people view edge.

I can get pretty wacked out on caffeine. The effects just don't last as long as meth.

Could one eat weed in brownies or mac n cheese and still be straight edge since they aren't smoking anything and cannabis is 100% natural?

[Joe]

No, because it fucks you up, maaaan.

-Joe.