515 Crew

[joseph]

i did. twice.
and for his father as well.
my quality of life has improved ten fold. i have nothing to apoligize for.

[Wheatstache]

I did. I was hoping things would go this way, so I will not be apologizing either.

[joseph]

I don't know Joseph, but I'm pretty sure he's joking.

im not kidding. im nice for the most part.

[Wheatstache]

I don't know Joseph, but I'm pretty sure he's joking. That aside, I know you did, and I have to wonder what people who voted for him are feeling in 2008. If there is no remorse for this nationally shared mistake, then American democracy can be fully appreciated as a failure.

I know you're kidding, but I'm actually curious what Bush supporters or former-supporters are thinking these days.

Well, I thought voting for him was a better vote than for Kerry. I wasn't impressed with Kerry. I guess I can't recall my entire thought process for why I voted that way to be honest.
Since then, I'm pretty underwhelmed with our President and his administration- although I'm even more underwhelmed by our Congress. I don't quite regret my decision to vote for Bush, because again, I do think he was a better choice, but I've indeed had enough. Most of government seems to turn me off pretty quickly anymore anyway.
I would however, like to kick it with Mr. Bush on his ranch. He actually seems like a really interesting person to me, despite his presidency.

[Crumpty Williams]

the problems in this world have roots a lot deeper than the silly political divide that keeps so many of us occupied.... W is a puppet. Regardless of who/which puppet is shown to the public as being in "power", the same forces are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Benefit of blaming people who voted for him = zero.

[joseph]

What, exactly, disappoints you about congress? There seems to be a pretty wide-ringing chorus of scorn for them, but not a lot of people are willing to justify it. My sense is that it's easier to place blame on them due to their "otherness", and that it's far less confrontational to say you disagree with hundreds of individuals, than to hold one asshole's feet to the flames.

That said, I also think there are a lot of scumbags in congress, but that we're making a lot of progress.
Creating substantial progressive majorities in the house and senate is crucial in preventing situations like the real estate bust (we wouldn't be in this mess if we'd had a majority to regulate the lending market), unsafe and illogical wars (we wouldn't be in this mess if we'd had a majority that could've defeated the political pressure and emotional propaganda following 9/11), and GLOBAL WARMING (which is real, but preventable with leaders who are willing to force reform in polluting industries, and fund the development of sustainable energy and the infrastructure it requires), and a whole swath of other issues that have been perverted and bungled throughout the aught years.

And, yet, George Bush could have used the last 8 years to push congress to do any of those things, and instead he wasted our time on bizarre social issues that didn't accomplish anything but distract and divide the country, and fumbled two wars that are now boiling out of control (expect to hear a lot more about Afghanistan in the months ahead), and are likely to lead to massively destabilizing consequences worldwide.

People need to recognize this as the mistake that it was in order to avoid repeating it.

im lost. i was gonna dissect but.... its not the Presidents job to tell congress what to do. blaming a president for economic policies is weird. he doesnt make the policy his advisors advise and write it and the fed take it under advisement and change things like the interest rate...
i still dont understand the "its our own fault for september 11th" mentality. or the "its our fault the world is screwed up".
the biggest disappointment i have in bush is the stimulus checks.

[Crumpty Williams]

the problems in this world have roots a lot deeper than the silly political divide that keeps so many of us occupied.... W is a puppet. Regardless of who/which puppet is shown to the public as being in "power", the same forces are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Benefit of blaming people who voted for him = zero.

If you feel that the same people are pulling the strings regardless of who we elect, that's a totally different discussion. What you're really saying here is not "Benefit of blaming people who voted for him = zero", but instead "Benefit of voting = zero". That's a totally valid point of view, but not one that really fits into the context of this thread, which presupposes the concept of your vote being for a person, party, and set of principles.

Let me rephrase then: Ultimate benefit of blaming anybody for anything = zero.

[Crumpty Williams]

the problems in this world have roots a lot deeper than the silly political divide that keeps so many of us occupied.... W is a puppet. Regardless of who/which puppet is shown to the public as being in "power", the same forces are pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Benefit of blaming people who voted for him = zero.

If you feel that the same people are pulling the strings regardless of who we elect, that's a totally different discussion. What you're really saying here is not "Benefit of blaming people who voted for him = zero", but instead "Benefit of voting = zero". That's a totally valid point of view, but not one that really fits into the context of this thread, which presupposes the concept of your vote being for a person, party, and set of principles.

Let me rephrase then: Ultimate benefit of blaming anybody for anything = zero.

[El Rhino]

I voted for him in 2000 and I still think it was the right thing to do then. I didn't vote for him in 2004 (I voted for myself, I wouldn't vote for Kerry) because I wasn't impressed with him. Other than the war (which every American should've known was coming sooner or later regardless of the reason), I didn't see him as really doing anything worthwhile. I wouldn't give him the nod of approval now due to his pandering to this mythical Hispanic vote by being extremely soft on illegal immigration.


No apologies given.

[Beaver]

Always downing your brown bretheren who unbeknownst to you convienience your day in some way shape or form. *Shakes head* For shame.

[hairy]

I voted for him twice.

[Bullet Tooth]

I voted for him twice.

same here.

no apology ever.

[elliot]

I would debate this point.....but most people here know my position. I honestly see the world in a pretty cut and dry way, and I will never be able to understand people who voted for Bush. Ever. That's all.

[El Rhino]

....and on the flip side, many of us don't understand why you think the way you do either.

[Varg]

blaming a president for economic policies is weird. he doesnt make the policy his advisors advise and write it and the fed take it under advisement and change things like the interest rate...

Uhh, the reason that we're in this mess is because banks were allowed to lend money to individuals who couldn't afford to pay it back, under ridiculous and unrealistic terms. He, and the republican congress could've controlled it by regulating the market during the stupid and obvious bubble during the first of his two terms, instead of encouraging it and, along with Alan Greenspan, prolonging the inevitable burst until after the 2004 elections, making it that much more damaging.

Yes, it's their fault.

Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20 on this board.......actually it's closer to 20/15, just like Tiger.

[elliot]

....and on the flip side, many of us don't understand why you think the way you do either.

Exactly. That's the beauty of life!

[Hank Fist]

blaming a president for economic policies is weird. he doesnt make the policy his advisors advise and write it and the fed take it under advisement and change things like the interest rate...

Uhh, the reason that we're in this mess is because banks were allowed to lend money to individuals who couldn't afford to pay it back, under ridiculous and unrealistic terms. He, and the republican congress could've controlled it by regulating the market during the stupid and obvious bubble during the first of his two terms, instead of encouraging it and, along with Alan Greenspan, prolonging the inevitable burst until after the 2004 elections, making it that much more damaging.

Yes, it's their fault.

We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to christianity.

fucking genius, jackfuck.

[joseph]

blaming a president for economic policies is weird. he doesnt make the policy his advisors advise and write it and the fed take it under advisement and change things like the interest rate...

Uhh, the reason that we're in this mess is because banks were allowed to lend money to individuals who couldn't afford to pay it back, under ridiculous and unrealistic terms. He, and the republican congress could've controlled it by regulating the market during the stupid and obvious bubble during the first of his two terms, instead of encouraging it and, along with Alan Greenspan, prolonging the inevitable burst until after the 2004 elections, making it that much more damaging.

Yes, it's their fault.

im in no mess.
if a bank lended money to somebody that couldnt pay it back its the same as loaning it to a friend that wont pay it back. the bank should suffer. the govt should not be here to regulate every aspect of business.

[joseph]

the fault lies with the idiot that asked and took a loan that they knew they couldnt repay. or with the institution that relies on govt to pay their losses.

im really hoping the housing market makes 100,000 dollar houses worth 12,000.

[robdigi]

the fault lies with the idiot that asked and took a loan that they knew they couldnt repay.

yes. the housing finance crisis is due to people who were stupid enough to actually TRUST the established financial institutions who were handing out the money and were generally regarded as experts in their business. idiots!

[joseph]

the fault lies with the idiot that asked and took a loan that they knew they couldnt repay.

yes. the housing finance crisis is due to people who were stupid enough to actually TRUST the established financial institutions who were handing out the money and were generally regarded as experts in their business. idiots!

thanks for your agreement.